Polish and Imperial German 7.92mm Cutaways


#1

Polish, Romanian, and Imperial German 7.92mm Cutaways, From left to right:

Polish Light Ball, PK/ 36/ DZ/ 67, black PA
Polish Heavy Ball, PK/ 31/ DZ/ 67, green PA, capitol PK on base of projectile
Polish Armor Piercing, PK/ 26/ MN/ *67, red PA
Romanian Heavy Ball, CMC/ 1940, green PA (Can someone please name this primer layout?)
Imperial German Light Ball, G/ 11/ 17/ S67, capitol G on base of projectile
Imperial German Armor Piercing, DM/ 8/ 18/ *67
(the third projectile in the third picture is not related to this thread, however its from a 7.62x51 SLAP with head stamp 616/ 99)
Kevin


#2

The primer layout is called Roth after the Austrian manufacturer. It was used in European countries formlerly part of the Austrian Empire.


#3

JPeelen:

DID ROTH PATENT THIS STYLE OF BERDAN PRIMER ANVIL? IF SO DOES ANYONE KNOW THE PATENT # AND DATE ISSUED?

THANKS FOR ANY ASSISTANCE.


#4

regarding the SLAP bullet base you show, from lot 315 in our sale #13:

circa late 1990s Swedish 7.62x51 SK ptr 10 prick {NATO SLAP} has a flat brass primer with a red annulus, a brass case with a black case mouth sealant and a .19 cal. tungsten bullet held in an amber-colored 4-fingered plastic sabot. Thought to be for use by Army snipers, the 616 headstamp code notes Olin / Winchester as manufacturer as specified by the Swedish government contract.


#5

Whilst it is commonly called the “Roth Patent Berdan Primer” it is not known for ceretain that Roth actually Patented it. Some other Makers did use it during WW I (DWM,etc); and of course, the Czechs,Austrians,Hungarians, Portuguese, Bulgarians, Romanians, Dutch etc. continued using it after the Demise of the Roth Factories after WW I. It was favoured for the 5mm primer ( .199") used in a lot of Intermediate cases ( Most of the 6,5 Calibres) but also used in 7,9mm, 7mm, .303 with Large Primer) etc.

As to when it was introduced, it was certainly before 1900, as 8x56R Kropatschek Cartridges with 1898 and 99 dates have it. I am not sure if earlier 11mm BP cases had it as well.

As far as utility, it improved the reloadability of Military Berdan cases ( Everybody reloaded for training and blanks in BP era), by using a fine punch to remove the primer without damaging the anvil. The Dutch continued this practice till 1940 (WW II); Other countries had abandoned Military reloadability even before WW I ; The US only did so after WW I (See Instructions on Packets before 1920s).

Doc AV


#6

DocAV

THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFORMATION. OVER YEARS OF COLLECTING I’VE DISCOVERED THAT MANY AMMUNITION RELATED ITEMS THAT LINK A PARTICULAR INDIVIDUALS NAME TO THEM WERE NOT ACTUALLY PATENTED.


#7

George, you may be interested in this previous thread about this subject: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14273


#8

Fede

THANK YOU! I WAS NOT AWARE HOW WIDELY USED THIS DESIGN WAS.


#9

The Roth primer was in fact an anvil primer of, broadly speaking, the Boxer type. Each cup included an anvil pierced in the center to transmit the initiating spark of the struck primer. Moetz includes several images of this primer in his first volume, including one of the primer in cutaway and not assembled into a complete cartridge case. Moetz does not apply the name Roth to the center flash-hole type Berdan primer. Jack