Pre WW1 Turkish Fuze help please!


#1

Hello,

I have this fuze in my collection.

From what I can gather it is a Krupp design, manufactured for the Turks around the beginning of the 20th Century.

What I would like to know is the correct model/type number for this fuze,also,would anyone out there happen to have any diagrams/drawings/other info about this fuze please?

Kind regards,
Andy



#2

Anyone?


#3

This is a VICKERS fuze. Ask for details: budeod@comcast.net . He should be able to answer for you.


#4

Sorry but this is a Krupp design.


#5

It is actually a co-opted British design.

Do you have any details of the Krupp version ?


#6

The fuze is clearly a Krupp patent from 1900.
The British used the Krupp design in their No80 fuze, thats about it. No cooperation at all.

Here an excerpt from the Krupp patent:

Here the British No80 being an exact copy of the Krupp design:

Andy’s fuze even has another feature of a different Krupp patent which is the u-shaped cavity for the saftey plunger for the impact section of the fuze.
Can show this one as well if someone really wants.


#7

EOD

How does the USA fuse fit into the scheme of things, Patent-wise? It’s obviously the same design

Ray


#8

EOD

OK, I did a dupe post again and no way to delete.

So, I’ll use this to ask another question. I’ve always wondered what those washers that seperate the different sections were made of. The drawing says Vegetable Paper and Box Cloth. Any idea what those are?

Ray


#9

Thanks for that EOD, much appreciated!

I’d be interested in seeing anything else you have regarding this particular fuze.

Info that I’ve heard from other collectors tells me that this fuze is quite hard to obtain, is this true?

Just after I bought it I managed (with a lot of care & patience!) to loosen the rings and strip it down, so now the timing ring moves freely.

I bought this example,along with a mint example Number 80 for the cheap price of $35 for the pair.

Here are pics of the number 80.

Kind regards,
Andy


#10

[quote=“Ray Meketa”]EOD

How does the USA fuse fit into the scheme of things, Patent-wise? It’s obviously the same design

Ray[/quote]

Those comming to my mind are similar in the outer appearance but are no Krupp designs. Do you mean a particular one?

The “washers” I think are for protection of the powder train, to reduce friction and probably to assist assembly of the fuzes.


#11

[quote=“AndyD”]Thanks for that EOD, much appreciated!

I’d be interested in seeing anything else you have regarding this particular fuze.

Info that I’ve heard from other collectors tells me that this fuze is quite hard to obtain, is this true?

Just after I bought it I managed (with a lot of care & patience!) to loosen the rings and strip it down, so now the timing ring moves freely.

I bought this example,along with a mint example Number 80 for the cheap price of $35 for the pair.

Here are pics of the number 80.

Kind regards,
Andy

[/quote]

It is certainly hard to find but I have one and know at least three to four others (and alsosome other Krupp fuzes with arab markings).

Here the exact patent drawing for your fuze from 1900. It has the second safety plunger for the impact section. In the drawing it is marked “H”.


#12

I still want to try and strip my British No. 80 Mk. IV. EOD (or anyone else), do you have any drawings of the Mk. IV? The Mk. IV appears to be of slightly different construction to the Mk. XI diagram shown here.


#13

[quote=“EOD”]Those comming to my mind are similar in the outer appearance but are no Krupp designs. Do you mean a particular one?

The “washers” I think are for protection of the powder train, to reduce friction and probably to assist assembly of the fuzes.[/quote]

EOD

I’m thinking of the FA 21 Second and the M1917. They are very similar in design and virtually identical in operation so I would think they would be a Patent infringement.

I know that the washers are used to seperate the two powder trains during burning but have always wondered what they were made of that would not burn through.

Ray


#14

[quote=“EOD”]The fuze is clearly a Krupp patent from 1900.
The British used the Krupp design in their No80 fuze, thats about it. No cooperation at all.

Here an excerpt from the Krupp patent:

Here the British No80 being an exact copy of the Krupp design:

Andy’s fuze even has another feature of a different Krupp patent which is the u-shaped cavity for the saftey plunger for the impact section of the fuze.
Can show this one as well if someone really wants.[/quote]

You are making a chronological mistake. You are comparing a 1900 document with a much later document. You need to put up a document showing the no. 80 mark 1 not the no.80 mark 11.

This basic British fuze design was copied by many countries including the Japanese.


#15

Wishing to have all these documents on hand it is still a fact that Krupp patented it and noone else.
Why a chronological error? When Krupp patented it first in 1900 it is logical that everybody else made these fuzes later in accordance to the Krupp design (what you seem not wanting to believe).
It may be your turn now to come up with an earlier British patent.

If I find a MkI I will post it.


#16

Not apples and oranges my good man but rather old apples compared to newer apples. What date was the #80 mk 1 adopted ?


#17

[quote=“Ray Meketa”][quote=“EOD”]Those comming to my mind are similar in the outer appearance but are no Krupp designs. Do you mean a particular one?

The “washers” I think are for protection of the powder train, to reduce friction and probably to assist assembly of the fuzes.[/quote]

EOD

I’m thinking of the FA 21 Second and the M1917. They are very similar in design and virtually identical in operation so I would think they would be a Patent infringement.

I know that the washers are used to seperate the two powder trains during burning but have always wondered what they were made of that would not burn through.

Ray[/quote]

Ray, you need to look at the inner construction. The US fuzes are very different.


#18

double posting


#19

EOD says "Here the exact patent drawing for your fuze from 1900. It has the second safety plunger for the impact section. In the drawing it is marked “H”. "

CSAEOD says; " This is not the same fuze. How many segments do you see ?"


#20

[quote=“AndyD”]Hello,

I have this fuze in my collection.

From what I can gather it is a Krupp design, manufactured for the Turks around the beginning of the 20th Century.

What I would like to know is the correct model/type number for this fuze,also,would anyone out there happen to have any diagrams/drawings/other info about this fuze please?

Kind regards,
Andy


[/quote]

Can you show the tip and the base?