Primer or centerfire cartridge?

Not sure if this is a primer or blank centerfire cartridge?
case length 10.87mm
rim 7.25mm
neck 5.95

Fede, is the acorn squaring with the Czechoslovak cartridge?

Sorry, wrong identification. I’m checking again to find out what it is.

Hi Bruce, I have something similar to your acorn hs. Maybe this is what Fede has in mind. I do not know what they are. P1P2P3
The tall one:
11.29 (,444) Long
7.10 (.280) Rim
5.99 (.235) Mouth, It has a slightly dished base.
The short one:
4.53 (.178) Long
10.13 (.399) Rim

What are they?
Thanks, Dan

I suppose, that 2 longer samples are primers for shot cartridges. The last one is not so common big Bischweiler shot primer.

Or they are probably primers for reduced indoor shooting, with small charge of gunpowder.

“Bischwiller”??? Translation programs found nothing…

Bischwiller is a place name. A village in the north east of France where the company was established mid 1880’s by Walbinger-Meuschel.

Krag’s cartridge is a center fire used as a propelling charge in a short range device. For instance, the 8 mm Bulgarian Mannlicher. , beginning of the XXth .
The Bischweiller is a patented primer , if you read french you will find details on


1 Like

Thank you for this interestung document.
If I got the meaning right, it says that the 1889 improvement (drawing on page 9, particularly Fig. 5 and 8) of the 1887 design (drawing on page 5) was not as successful as the latter.

This is a little surprising to a German reader, because the 1889 design (called Gevelot-ZĂĽndung but usually named ZĂĽndung VI) in our country is considered the epitome of an optimum shotgun cartridge primer design and can be found in many good quality products. (I am no expert in this field and paraphrase German publications, for example Waffen-Lexikon of 1966.) In other words, the 1889 design more or less did set the standard in Germany.

The 1887 design is called ZĂĽndung I in Germany. I have no idea what primer types II through V for shotgun cartridges looked like. I thought this detail on the use of the 1889 design might be of interest to you.

Thanks Phil!


I think there is a misunderstood somewhere , certainly due to the dates of introduction and design. the “amorçage fermé Mle 1887” also called amorçage Gévelot was patented in 1887 but the addition to the pat. is dated 1889. It is the best primer shotshell ever made. Its design make it waterproof, and when a foil close the top, a 50 years old Mle 1887 primer is still usable ; something a battery cup can’t do. Its quality made, that number of primer manufactures have adopted the design
The Hotchkiss type primer called 1889 was designed in the 1870’s but put on the market in 1889 to prime black powder shotshells even if the drawing on page 5 mention the date of 1887
The fact to introduce two different shotshell primers a same year might have induced a confusion in the mind of customers , so I believe the best design I mean the “amorçage fermé” was first officially commercialized and named 1887 ; the second of the Hotchkiss type was then named 1889
What I say is based on official documents and not suppositions
The 1912 primer (Bischweiller and SFM) is an attempt to improve the 1889 with the 1887 design . The idea was not bad as Mandl in Austria and Joyce in England have manufactured such primers