Primers - cheapest way of fitting several 100


#1

Help and advice please chaps and chapettes:

I have about 600 wildcat rds of all primer sizes and calibres that don’t have primers fitted, I’d like to fit them with primers. I have no loading equipment at all so what would be the cheapest and simplest way of doing this.

I need a way of fitting all primer sizes. (I could inert the primers if it makes it easier)

I hope this post doesn’t contravene the no realoding topics if so MOD’s please delete.


#2

Do you know anybody that does reload? They should have the correct size priming tools, but you may have to buy them a shell holder for any “odd ball” case head sizes.
If not, might I suggest the LEE hand held priming tool? They sell a kit of IIRC 11 of the most common size shell holders for it.
In the Boxer primed stuff there are only 2 sizes of tool you need to worry about, large and small. Not sure about Berdan primers, if the same tool will work or not.


#3

Are there bullets already seated in the cases? I presume they are from your description.
If so you are going to have a problem because although you can use a hand priming tool you are going to need quite a few different shell holders to match all the different cases. Some shell holders fit more than one calibre, in fact some fit quite a range of cases but Lee (which are the cheapest) do about fifteen shell holders in their range. Also they won’t fit the most exotic wildcats with really unusual cases.

The primers are just a push fit but unless you get lucky and have some loose or worn primer pockets you are going to need more than hand pressure. You should only need two sizes of primer, large rifle and small rifle.


#4

In the infamous ‘Khyber Pass’ video the kids simply did it with a hammer :)


#5

Well thats certainly an idea, you could try a hard rubber mallet. Don’t use a hammer or you will mark the base of the cases. Its going to be a slow job though.


#6

First of all, a word from your friendly Admin: As long as you are not recommending using a certain primer for reloading for shooting, it is a Cartridge Improvement, not Reloading information and is OK.

If the cartridges have had their bullets removed, and you are using Inert primers, all you need are a flat surface, a rubber, plastic or rawhide mallet and a appropriate size dowel that will fit inside the case. Lightly start the primer with your fingers then place the cartridge head down on the flat surface and tap the dowel to seat the primer.


#7

Without a case holder, how are you going to prevent the bullet from being set back or the case shoulder altered (if you use that to support the wildcat as you pound on the primer.

Recommend you leave them like they are. Besides you will probably pick primers that are not comtemporary with the wildcat and someday, someone will think they are later made-up replicas instead of vintage, original wildcats (if those terms have any meaning with wildcats).

Cheers,

Lew


#8

Certainly do not use live primers in a cartridge with a bullet but no powder. We are all simply caretakers of the cartridges we have now - they WIL belong to someone else someday. If a cartridge with only a primer and no powder is fired, the result is often a bullet stuck in a bore, which could cause a bad accident if the shooter doesn’t recognize the implications of lack of report, and chambers and fires the next one.

Yes, I know it is highly unlikely to ever happen, especially in the case of Wildcats. Let’s all remember Murphy’s Law, however.

John Moss


#9

You can try a Lee Auto-Prime and a set of shell holders.
http://www.factorysales.com/html/xcart/catalog/primtool.html


#10

delete


#11

I have done some experiments with penetrating oil. With the high quality of some primers and their sealant against contamination, it is no guarantee of inerting a primer. Also, my caution was about using live primers in cases with bullets in them, but no powder, not in cases that will remain as primed empties.

When I used to make dummies for customers, I popped the anvil out of the primers and did other things to guarantee inert primers. I don’t want to go any farther with the explanation, as it will get into areas of “reloading” that I don’t believe belong here.

I will stand by my statement that it is not wise to prime a bulleted-case that has no primer with a live primer, giving it the appearance of a loaded round. It is an accident waiting to eventually happen.

John Moss


#12

delete


#13

Thanks for all the info, I had forgotten about the lee priming tool. I’ll see if I can get it and a set of shell holders over here, if not I’ll get in touch with Ray.

Thanks.


#14

Kranks are about the best source in the UK.


#15

[quote=“JohnMoss”]I have done some experiments with penetrating oil. With the high quality of some primers and their sealant against contamination, it is no guarantee of inerting a primer. Also, my caution was about using live primers in cases with bullets in them, but no powder, not in cases that will remain as primed empties.

When I used to make dummies for customers, I popped the anvil out of the primers and did other things to guarantee inert primers. I don’t want to go any farther with the explanation, as it will get into areas of “reloading” that I don’t believe belong here.

I will stand by my statement that it is not wise to prime a bulleted-case that has no primer with a live primer, giving it the appearance of a loaded round. It is an accident waiting to eventually happen.

John Moss[/quote]
Your idea of popping out the anvil is a good one. Or loading a spent primer which is cheaper if you don’t mind having a dummy with a fired primer. 600 primers is going to cost about £20 so fired primers might be quite sound from a financial point of view.
I have witnessed primer only rounds going off many times on the range, mainly reloading errors, and it is enough to drive the bullet right up into the barrel.


#16

[quote=“VinceGreen”][quote=“JohnMoss”]I have done some experiments with penetrating oil. With the high quality of some primers and their sealant against contamination, it is no guarantee of inerting a primer. Also, my caution was about using live primers in cases with bullets in them, but no powder, not in cases that will remain as primed empties.

When I used to make dummies for customers, I popped the anvil out of the primers and did other things to guarantee inert primers. I don’t want to go any farther with the explanation, as it will get into areas of “reloading” that I don’t believe belong here.

I will stand by my statement that it is not wise to prime a bulleted-case that has no primer with a live primer, giving it the appearance of a loaded round. It is an accident waiting to eventually happen.

John Moss[/quote]
Your idea of popping out the anvil is a good one. Or loading a spent primer which is cheaper if you don’t mind having a dummy with a fired primer. 600 primers is going to cost about £20 so fired primers might be quite sound from a financial point of view.
I have witnessed primer only rounds going off many times on the range, mainly reloading errors, and it is enough to drive the bullet right up into the barrel.[/quote]

John my bold in your post

I think if you try and fire ammunition from an unknown source you should exercise caution, the person who who puts a live primer with a bulleted case isn’t the one at fault, it’s the person who tries to fire it but thats just my opinion and we all have one :)

Vince,
I’ve just looked at Kranks, thanks and they do have the auto prime and holders. I’ll probably inert the primers simply because the rds have no powder, so I might as well keep everything inert.


#17

Armourer,

If you fit primers that are NOT INERT, you would technically be creating ammunition to which Section 1 (and/or other sections depending on the projectile/s) of the Firearms Act 1968 would apply, and your newly primed collection would then be subject to licensing.

Are you also aware of the requirements of Section 35 of the VCR Act?

[i]It is an offence for a person to buy or to attempt to buy-

(a) a primer to which this section applies, or

(b) an empty cartridge case incorporating such a primer,

unless he falls within subsection (5).

 (5) A person falls within this subsection if- 

(a) he is a registered firearms dealer;

(b) he sells by way of any trade or business either primers or empty cartridge cases incorporating primers, or both;

© he holds a certificate authorising him to possess a firearm of a relevant kind;

(d) he holds a certificate authorising him to possess ammunition of a relevant kind;

(e) he is a person in the service of Her Majesty who is entitled under subsection (6) to acquire a primer to which this section applies;

(f) he is entitled, by virtue of the 1968 Act, the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988 or any other enactment and otherwise than by virtue of being a person in the service of Her Majesty, to have possession, without a certificate, of a firearm of a relevant kind or of ammunition of a relevant kind;

(g) he is in possession of a certificate authorising another person to have possession of such a firearm, or of such ammunition, and has that other person’s authority to purchase the primer or empty cartridge case on his behalf; or

(h) he is authorised by regulations made by the Secretary of State to purchase primers or cartridge cases of the type in question.[/i]


#18

Sorry gentlemen, but this is one time I don’t find the humor amusing. I was a gun dealer for 36 years - a Professional Gun Dealer. I know all about liability, and I agree that people should not use “strange ammo” and that its stupid. Its almost as stupid as putting a live primer in an empty case that has a bullet in it, when it is so easy ti inert a primer. There are things to do with ammo, and things that shouldn’t be done with ammo. That’s one that shouldn’t. You are all entitled to your own opinion, but don’t denigrate mine.

Enough said on the subject.

John Moss


#19

The question of live primers in a so called inert round with regard to British law is a valid one.
The status of primers generally is a bit of a grey area now because the rules have been extended by stealth rather than by legislation.

A primed but empty case is a blank in the eyes of the law (untested as far as I know) but a primed empty case with projectile would almost certainly become live ammunition in law.
A smart but knowledgeable lawyer would argue against you about Floberts etc.

Ray, I’m sorry if the humour offends John because in my opinion your post sums up the stupid but true nature of the situation now in Britain. You could end up in jail for doing that and if you did, because it would be classed as a firearms crime you would be a high catagory prisioner.

People over here tend to say no cartridge collector has been busted yet so everything must be OK, but that is a meaningless arguement. It doesn’t mean that certain practices and assumptions are valid.


#20

I agree that it is dumb to fire ammo from an unknown source. That said, it is done all the time.

I don’t recall ever doing it, but once did something just as dumb. When I was young and poor, and reloading 30-06, I bought some 4895 (as I remember) from a guy who said he bought it in bulk. I loaded some ammo and went out to the range with my “sportirized” Springfield and the first round was a shock. There was smoke coming out of the breech and when I opened the primer was melted across the head of the case and the case head was swollen significantly. Thank goodness it was a trusty Springfield or the side of my face could have been lying on the range. The guy he I got the powder from admitted he bought a few pounds from another guy and really didn’t know what it was. In truth it did look like 4895!!! I still have the fired case around here somewhere to remind myself how stupid I am.

With the liability laws in the US people can be sued over anything and can spend a lot of money and time, even if you win. John’s caution is well taken unless you live outside the US in a place with different liability laws or you have lots of money and feel that supporting a lawyer’s lifestyle is the way you want to spend it.

Frankly, I am a bit uncomfortable with this whole thread because it is too close to “Reloading” to me. When the Forum was first established anything to do with reloading was forbidden specifically because of the liability laws in the US and the possibility that something posted on here would result in a suit and in the IAA being shut down.

Cheers,

Lew