Puma 92 and ammo recoil


#1

This is Puma 92 gunblast.com/Puma-MaresLeg.htm a type of a pistol Ray especially enjoys seeing at the forum. Unfortunatelly, I don’t own one. And never saw one before today. Since it is a reduced long gun with no pistol grip, would not .45 Colt ammo be very heavy on average wrist construction when held as a pistol?


#2

Vlad

That “pistol” is nothing more than a gimmick firearm made to sell to TV buffs. Not very practical and probably soon to outlawed in States such as MA and CA. Can you imagine the uproar if one is used to hold up a 7-11?

In order to be legal it has to be newly manufactured as a pistol and can’t be a cut down rifle.

As to the 45 Colt, it’s not really a powerful cartridge compared with some of today’s Magnum offerings. It’s even available in such things as a Derringer (another gimmick).

Ray


#3

I have seen a few of these in old Wild West movies. Was this commonly done in that era?


#4

Falcon - No, it was not commonly done. I have never seen a picture of any rifle cut sown quite like that reported as an “original” (not factory original, of course, but from “the old days”). These are “Walter Mitty” firearms, made popular by Steve McQueen in his role as a bounty hunter on the TV show “Wanted. Dead or Alive” as I recall. It is true that Winchester and others (Marlin, etc.) made short-barrel rifles. The 20" “short rifle” was the primary one, but so-called “Trapper’s Models” were made with barrels at least as short as 14 inches, but in the rifle or carbine configuration with a full buttstock.

That cut-off rifle would not have been more effective in anyway, except perhaps holding one or two more rounds, than a 7-1/2" barreled Colt Single Action Army Revolver in the same (presumably .44-40) caliber. Ther were no .45 Colt caliber rifles back then - the cartridge as originally designed with a very thin rim, ballon-head cases on some, and its very small rim diameter in relation to what protruded past the diameter of the base, as well as the straight side cases, were not suitable for use in lever-action rifles. n The full-rimmed, tapered case .44-40 was far superior.

In one epsiode of the McQueen series, which I enjoyed despite the stupid premise of the cut-off Model 92 carbine, and the fact that for what was probably a .44-40 caliber weapon he had .30-=30 cartridges in his belt, two bad guys were hiding behind a rock, and one said that they couldn’t get close enough to the McQueen character because with that “big pistol” he had them out-ranged. At least one of them had a full-length Model 92 .38-40 or .44-40 caliber rifle himself. Talk about a total misunderstanding of ballistics and the effects of a longer barrel on range and velocity! They must have had a real “expert” as their technical advisor on that series.

Regarding recoil, pistol caliber rifles with full loads in rounds like the .44-40 and .45 Colt have some recoil, but nothing a ten year old boy couldn’t handle. The McQueen cut-off rifle would be heavier than a colt SAA and therefore have less felt recoil than a standard revolver of the day. Pistol-caliber rifle loads used in Cowboy Action Shooting, and not even the ridiculously light “gamer” loads, have almost no recoil in a rifle. Like shooting a .22. I have shot thousands of .44-40 moderat “cowboy” loads from 92 Winchesters, both rifle and carbine, and the recoil is very, very moderate even with my loads. I use the same load in both rifle and revolver, and use the full-weight, 200 grain bullet at about 700fps from the revolver.

John Moss


#5

Outlaws like Bonnie & Clyde would cut down long guns for bank robberies and such, but the weapons were either shotguns or full-auto BAR’s which they could sling under a long coat after cutting-down. I can’t imagine a criminal wanting a lever-action like this. As far as practicality of recoil, I’ve concluded there is no apparent comfort-limit after seeing this “pistol”:

[youtube]P34v983P2j4[/youtube]


#6

More recently, the ‘Mare’s Leg’ style of perfectly-good-rifle-turned-into-a-pistol was seen on the sci-fi TV show ‘Firefly’.

If you were to, say, a Puma levergun-pistol in .480 or .454, then it’d be a little more painful on the sending end.

The .45LC can be handloaded to levels around the .44 Magnum range, but most of the factory ammunition I’ve used is very tame.


#7

In the Shrivenham small-arms museum there’s a .303 rifle with the barrel cut down to 6 inches - but a full stock! I have no idea what it was for, but I wouldn’t want to shoot it…


#8

Recoil is a subjective thing. Some folks are willing to explore extremes more than others…

Dave


#9

Dave what calibre was that?


#10

falcon5nz,

I’m not really sure what caliber that gun is. I came across that video clip 3-4 years ago and don’t recall if caliber was mentioned but for some reason I think it might be something like a .600 or .620 JDJ. I think that’s a .577 NE straightened out to use .620" dia. bullets for the .600 NE. I would be interested to hear if anyone has any more info on what that beast was.

Dave


#11

I seem to recall seeing that clip listed on youtube as a .600 Nitro Express…