Question on M1 carbine ammo

If it can be of any help, FA drawings specify a total weight of approx. 97 grains for the FA T1, and 103 grains for the M6.

Definitely .30 Carbine specs.

Joe

Joe

That case could not have been fired in a Carbine chamber. Headspace is all wrong.

Ray

Fede,

Yes, I weighed what i posted as T6/M6 and I get 101.7 thru 104.1 for posted round plus 5 duplicate’s. The more closed rose pedal round I feel is a FAT1/T79. I only have the one for that WCC 43 headstamp I referred to and one duplicate. They weighs in at 95.2 and 98.0 respectively.

So With Fede’s helpful information, I think I identified them correctly, but who knows for sure. I suppose you would have to cut them open and see and weigh what powder is in them.

joe

[quote=“RayMeketa”]Joe

That case could not have been fired in a Carbine chamber. Headspace is all wrong.

Ray[/quote]

Ya Ray, your right. It is 1.215" to where it would shoulder and my Wilson check die is 1.280" on the short side. Wow, now I really need the new Woodin book.

Joe

Addition: It is way to small for 5,56 as I tried a check die and it falls in deep. Head submerged 1/4"

thanks for all the info guys

The Lake City product manual lists the following U. S. .30 Carbine cartridge types:

M1 Ball
M6 Grenade
M13 Dummy
M16 Tracer (Red Tip, bright trace)
M18 High Pressure Test (Stannic Stained Case, pointed bullet)
M27 Tracer (Orange Tip, dim/bright trace)

Full specifications and dimensioned drawings for each are provided in the manual if anyone needs them.

Dennis, if the drawings for the ball round give the ogive radius and the rounding radius of the bullet tip, I would be most interested in these values.

Here are a few Norwegian rounds,but some are US made:

How about a description of what those Norwegian rounds are, and perhaps a photo of the headstamps on them? Very pretty picture of some interesting cartridges, but not much information for the student there. :-)

Yes, sorry about that. I just posted an old picture I had on my computer.

Will find my box of .30US, take a few photos and give more information.

I have what was told to me was a .30 car. flare round. It has a W.R.A. 42 headstamp and a damaged plastic sabot. I was told these were quite scarce.

Pictures are worth a thousand words.

Joe

If you are a student, I don’t think I even qualify for the kindergarden :-)

Here are pictures of the headstamp of my previously posted Norwegian ammunition:

#1: Lake City tracer
#2: Norma Ball from 1958
#3: Ball round from Winchester
#4: Raufoss produced bal from 1966
#5: Most likely blank from Lake City
#6: Wooden blank. I’m not sure if this was made in US, or Norway. I have several, but all are loaded in US cases.
#7 and 8: Bakkelittfabrikken blank
#9: Not 100% sure about this one. Yelow usually means grenade blank, but the box label says: " Actuator round for gass rifle. "
#10: Dummy made on case from Lake City

Below are a few boxes:

The first two boxes are 50 round boxes from Norma. One has a lid that can be completely removed, the other is “hinged” to the box.

The next 4 boxes are from Raufoss. The one with the white label is 30 rounds. The boxes in plastic are two 50 round boxes given to the home guard to be kept at home in case of imideately mobilisation. These were not allowed to be opened in peace time.

The last two boxes are from Bakelittfbrikken. The lower one is the normal red plastic blank, the other one I’m not quite sure about. It was made as late as 1981. Our police had US-Carbines until 80-90’s.

At last a picture together with my M2-Carbine, and a Norwegian spam can with 900 ball rounds:

pasg1, thank you for this informative explanation!

The “gas rifle” sounds much like a weapon which was used to fire anti riot grenades only (and there it was tear gas initially).
Some other countries have such concepts as well where regular service weapons (obsolete or worn out) were converted for such purposes. Usually by shortening barrles and sometimes the stocks.
But this is now only a rough suggestion. Out of curiosity it would be interesting if somebody could show this actual weapon so we all can get a better impression.

That sounds very plauseable, EOD. Since the police still used this gun in the 80’s. I will try to find out more about this box, I just got it a few weeks ago.

psg1

Is that a real, original M2 Carbine??

Ray

Yes, it’s real, and in very nice condition. To make it legal in Norway, the rod to select full auto has been taken out. But it’s still working in semi, and I do use it sometimes in historic competitions.

Wow - nice boxes. I don’t have a single Norwegian .30 Carbine box in my collection, even though I have some cartridges. I am sure the white wood bullet blank is a Norwegian load on U.S. cases. It is not American military, for sure. As you noted, Norway used a lot of U.S. Cases on blanks and dummies.

Nice carbine. I have an original and lovely Inland Division (General Motors) M1 carbine. Technically, under the US BATFE doctrine, it is illegal to own even an otherwise completely M1 carbine if the receiver is factory marked M2. Their doctrine in “once a machine gun, always a machine gun,” which is why so many M14 rifles were destroyed by the government, when all they had to do was removed the selector lever, lock and shafter, and cut off the bracket on the receiver that holds it, and you have the same rifle as a legal M1A! But, that’s too simple, even for our childish, simple-minded government. More taxpayer’s money burnt up over nothing. In California once, a DOJ agent told someone at a gun show (a friend of mine) that he better get rid of his M3 stock that he had on his M1 carbine - a piece of wood, so to speak, and nothing more - because it was a “machine gun part.” Technically true, but how silly can you get. The stocks are interchangeabile one way, from the M2 to the M1 (true M1 Carbine stocks don’t have the cut out for the selector lever, etc.), and were used that way even in the US Military. Some shooters like the “fat belly” of the M2 stock and that is why they put them on M1s. I doubt if an arrest had been made, instead of a warning, that it would have went anywhere even in our terrible court system.

I assume that is a Norwegian-made bayonet for the Carbine. Wow! I have never even seen a picture of one, although maybe there is one somewhere in one of my books on the Carbine and I just missed it. All that you pictured makes for a very, very nice “mini-collection” of the M1 Carbine. I have a similar thing with the Baby Nambu Japanese Pistol.

By the way, yes, I am clearly a student, albeit a 75-year old one, of arms and ammunition. I learn new things, and not just about new, modern items, every single day from my fellow collectors like you. I did with your thread on this Forum!!! Just a matter of degree my friend. I don’t believe much in “experts.” Usually, it just means they have a good library, some research skills, and perhaps a better than average memory for trivia. I have never met an “expert” who was not still a student, and the best ones are the first to admit that. I am NOT one of the best ones, by any means. Just an enthusiast always anxious to learn from the studies and research of others, as well as that of my own.

Keep those tidbits coming from Norway, my fellow student and collector!

psg1 - An original M2 Carbine, if it had been registered here in the US, will bring big dollars. I had one years ago but sold it. One of the big mistakes of my life. I also had a Thompson SMG but sold it too. Another big mistake. I seem to get smart too late.

John - I always tell non-collectors that I’m in the 4th phase of cartridge collecting. Phase 1, I know nothing. Phase 2, I know a little bit. Phase 3, I know everything. Phase 4, I know nothing. ;-) ;-)

Ray