Questions about US military ctges


#1

Hi!

  1. Is the 30-06 still in servive in US Army (or Navy, or Air Force).
    If yes for which gun and use ?
    If not which year was it dropped ?
  2. In which year Army (or Navy or Air Force) did adopt the 223
  3. Same question about 9 para

Thank you
JP


#2

JP

The AR 15 (M 16) and it’s cartridge (5.56 x 45) were officially adopted for USAF issue in May, 1962.

Ray


#3

thanks Ray !
JP


#4

I believe ceremonial units, e.g. the 3d U.S. Infantry (The Old Guard), maintain M1 Garands (.30-06) in it their inventory. Whether they have non-blank .30-06 ammunition in another question. That said, Tomb Guards carry M14s.


#5

thanks Christopher!
I can assume exept for special use like ceremonial units and so, on the 30 06 is no longer in service since the adoption of 30 Nato.
When was it ?


#6

JP

Someone more knowledgeable than me can fill in the details but, I believe the key NATO members approved the T65E3 (7.62 x 51) cartridge in late 1953 or early 1954. The earliest NATO headstamps I have are FA 55 and LC 55. The M 14 rifle was not adopted until 1957. Phased out as the standard issue rifle in the 1960s and 1970s, the M14 is still used in certain applications, such as snipers, guards, ceremonial, etc. The cartridge is still the NATO standard.

Back to the 30-06, from a shooters perspective. The cartridge is still approved for use in “service rifle” matches although it’s seldom seen on the firing line. It was dropped from the list of approved cartridges for International Palma matches in 1992.

Ray


#7

The United States Marine Corps “Silent Drill Team” still uses the M-1 rifle in .30-06 and do fire blank cartridges on occasion. Lake City AAP as recently as year 2000 manufactured .30-06 blank ammunition, although it is generally considered to have been made for veteran’s organizations. So, I’d say it is safe to say that the .30-06 is still in service with the US military, at least in some form. Chris Punnett’s book suggests that .30-06 was produced by Lake City into the late 1970’s.

AKMS


#8

[quote=“AKMS”]Lake City AAP as recently as year 2000 manufactured .30-06 blank ammunition, although it is generally considered to have been made for veteran’s organizations.
AKMS[/quote]
What is the headstamp on those rounds, and does anyone have an example?


#9

I was going from memory last night about the date on the LC blanks. The rounds in my collection are actually dated 2002. The headstamp is “L C 0 2” with the elements evenly spaced at 3, 6, 9 and 12 o’clock. If I recall correctly, these are still called “M-1909” blank cartridges, even though they have a star crimp instead of the usual roll crimp over cardstock. The fired cases in my collection came from my Grandfather’s funeral honor guard two years ago. He was a WWII veteran and was interred at a veteran’s cemetary with full honors, including a rifle volley. The honor guard told us that they do upwards of 20 funerals per day, every day of the week. Mulitply this by all of the Veteran’s cemetaries and private ones and all of the WWII veterans
(and others) that pass away each day (thousands) and you can see that the consumption of blanks is tremendous! This is aparently why Lake City was tasked with manufacturing new blank cartridges as old stocks were depleted.
Most Veteran’s organizations still use .30-06 caliber M-1 and M-1903 rifles for their honor guards. Since M-14 and M-16 rifles are “machineguns” by US law, they are not likely to be issued to civilian organizations…

AKMS


#10

J-P - it it important to note that while the M14 was officially adopted by the U.S. Army on May 1, 1957, it did not immediately enter full service. I was in the regular Army in 1957, 1958 and 1959, and never saw an M14 rifle except for one (or something similar - didn’t know anything about the rifle then) that I saw at the Artic Test Center at Fort Greely, Alaska, about mid-1958. It was fitted with a winter trigger, the same as supposedly was issued for the M1 rifle (a squeezer type attachment to the pistol-grip portion of the stock), although I never saw a winter-trigger on an M1 Garand during my tour in Alaska.

After my servie there, I returned to the active Army Reserve and was not discharged until 1965. At that time, I was in an Army Reserve Cadre unit. During our two-week active duty for training period in the summer (4 weeks for me, since I was there early and left late as the Dept. of Army Civilian for my unit, as well as a Reservist) we adminitered two weeks of Basic Training to Regular Army “boots” from Fort Ord. They had M14 rifles, but our Reserve units still had M1s and M1 Carbines, eight years after official adoption of the M14, retaining only one or two M14s in the entire battalion for our own familiarization with the weapon, since we had to deal with recruits armed and training with it. It had to be one of the shortest-lived shoulder weapons in general issue in the U.S. Army (note - I said “general issue”, not just from “date of adoption” or for special purposes in which it still plays a role today), since it was pretty much replaced in the Army by 1970.

In most military services it is virtually impossible to give an “official” date that a weapon is replaced, but rather only the official adoption date of the weapon that follows it, since all these things are phased in, sometimes over years, not just weeks or months.