Rarest 7.62x39 you have

Vitor, I understand that you are saying it is not a factory made dummy. I agree that unless someone has a labeled box we can’t exclude the possibility that it may have been made at an arsenal worshop or by someone else, who knows. However, in my opinion there is no doubt that the case and headstamp was made by FNM in Portugal, which also exist in ball and tracer loadings. Also, the headstamp style with inverted lot and date was used in other calibers made by FNM during 1984, like the 7.62x24 headstamped 7.62X24 FNM-1-84.

There is an additional fact that could be related with this question: I have another cartridge allegedly made in Portgual by FNM (a 223 Remington), and all of those people I know from the former FNM guarantee that nothing like that was made in that factories. The headstamp has similarities with this one.
So - I guess - either there is an unknown factory that “copied” the FNM headstamp, or both these cartridges are Mexican production (?). As always, there are alternative hypothesis, the less likely to me are the “manual” production or the existence of some very secret production that is unknown of my friends who used to work in FNM.
The strangest detail, to me, is that fact that I found that 223 Remington in Portugal, and you also mentioned that you know that this 7,62x39 Dummy cartridges where sold in Portugal. Could be that someone is making “fake” cartridges in Portugal by using old FNM dies ???
For those who know the sad story of the last months of former FNM, everything is plausible…

This that Vitor mentioned, could be a plausible hypothesis! do not agree???

The existence of a .223 ball cartridge that bears a head stamp very similar to
the one shown by Vitor is a well known and proven fact.

If anyone has access to Ron Fuchs’s listing of .223, he shows a photo of both the cartridge and a box label. h/s: FNM 90-30 .223 REM TARGET
I also have one of these in my collection

I apologize that I do not have the ability to show the box label, but here is a basic outline of that label:
INDEP
40 Patronen / Cartridges
Kal./cal. .223 Remington
Hersteller / manufacturer
INDEP - LISBON, PORTUGAL
Los / Lot - 90-30

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Could that be a contract to Germany?[quote=“FrankN, post:44, topic:24735, full:true”]
The existence of a .223 ball cartridge that bears a head stamp very similar to
the one shown by Vitor is a well known and proven fact.

If anyone has access to Ron Fuchs’s listing of .223, he shows a photo of both the cartridge and a box label. h/s: FNM 90-30 .223 REM TARGET
I also have one of these in my collection

I apologize that I do not have the ability to show the box label, but here is a basic outline of that label:
INDEP
40 Patronen / Cartridges
Kal./cal. .223 Remington
Hersteller / manufacturer
INDEP - LISBON, PORTUGAL
Los / Lot - 90-30
[/quote]

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Very possible, but for a commercial outlet, certainly not for military purchase.
The use of the word “TARGET” …

Thanks a lot for that precious information.
Can you show, or tell me where to watch a picture of that box?
As I was reading your post I was on the phone with the fellow that worked as designer in FNMnd he states that he recalls something about a production of .223 Remington, and he will search for additional data.
At this point a picture of that box would be marvellous because it could prove that there was such a production. Meanwhile, I’ll post an update if my friend finds something
Cheers

Vitor,
If you will please contact me and provide an e-mail address I will forward you a copy.

This is a FNM product that was packed in FNM commercial boxes marked “Made in Portugal”, while boxes of other calibers made by PPU were marked “Made for FNM”. The Serbian cartridges are very different from the ones labeled as made in Portugal, and I’m not aware of a packaging with reversed content.

Check this thread for more information: 6,5x55 Swedish MAuser with headstamp TARGET

This one is a contract for Transarms Handelsgesellschaft mbH & Co. KG, the German importer and representative of FNM in Europe. In 2001, when the Portuguese factory closed, they purchased the “FNM” brand.

About that .223 Remington box Label…I have one box in my collection…here it goes!

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Thaks!

Vitor,

There was a similar issue with S&B some years ago. There were brass washed steel case 9x19mm sold in the US as “RANGE” ammo. The people who run the S&B production line at Vlasim had never seen or heard of these rounds. The rounds had both military and commercial style headstamps and both were identical in all respects to the headstamps on S&B 9mm cases made at Vlasim. The best “guess” by the guys in the Czech Republic is that these rounds were made on contract in Russia and the bunters were supplied by S&B! Perhaps this is a similar situation.

Cheers,
Lew

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Thanks to you all for these precious information on this .223 Remington from FNM
This discussion has been around in the Portuguese (small) cartridge collectors community and Nuno was involved in it, never realising he had that empty card-box in his collection
Now, my remaining doubt is that the headstamp of my specimen has no lot-year indication, and the cartridge has a primer with a logo. Since in the card-box the year is 1990, and, as I know now that INDEP later on made the same calibre packed in the last boxes they used (the blue ones for civilian market) I wonder if there are variations on the headstamps and primers form the 1990 version to the later one. I guess the firs ones had the 90-30 in the headstamp and regular primers, maybe the later ones in the blue boxes are the ones that correspond to my cartridge.
Anyway, this discussion proved very enlightening to me.
Later on I’ll start a new post with singularities regarding experimental cartridges made in FNM.
Thanks
Vitor

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It is not a loaded round but a display of cutaways of experimental bullets by a Czech development activity. My understanding through the language barrier was that these were 4 different experimental bullets they tested, but the companion 9x19 display contained the Labs final design AP that went into production compared to a German mE bullet and a Libra Snail bullet. I could be mistaken and these are three other AP bullets compared to their AP which is the one at the far right I believe. Also pictured is a cutaway of what I believe is another of their experimental bullets and assorted bits and pieces that I received at the same time from the same individual.

Cheers,
Lew

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Lew, the Czech entity was VTU, also known as VTUVM.

I have found some blueprints of this .223 Rem.:-)

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Vitor. great drawings, thanks for sharing.

Greetings
Really rear cartridge from my collection. It was produced totally about 200 ctgs. Made by LCW for “Zbroyar” contract. It was used in experimental “civil” subsonic for Z-15 “Zombi Hunter” carbine.
https://reibert.info/attachments/img_2693-jpg.2764268/
X-ray image
https://reibert.info/attachments/1-jpg.2770611/

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In regards to the Rhodesian specimen…my brother was there from 1979 to 1980, and he recalled seeing Selous Scouts with silenced weapons. That might be what the sub sonic rounds were for. Otherwise, he said the AK 47 had a very distinct sound. When the Rhodesians heard an AK 47, they immediately returned fire. He has told me some very interesting stories!

I hope they were careful! A few Rhodesian units, including some within the Scouts, also carried AKs.