REM-UMC 8mm Mauser round with odd projectile


#1

REM-UMC 8mm Mauser round with odd projectile. Tip/core seems to be lead, but the rest is hard like steel but Non magnetic. Total cartridge weight is 437 grains. Projectile diameter is 0.319", but it seems someone has lacquer coated it, so it is probably more like 0.318".

Joe




#2

Joe, this is an interesting reload using a MGS two diameter bullet made between late 1940 and early 1950’s by Modern Gun Shop Bullet Co., Hollydale, California. Regards, Fede.


#3

Fede - thanks for posting that ad. Even though I don’t collect that caliber any more, I had several samples of this reload on various European cases - first I have seen of one on an American case. I was told once by a European that it was a Swiss loading, but I always had a nagging doubt about that because they are much more often encountered in the U.S than in Europe.

That’s a keep for the files.


#4

“two diameter bullet”, what is two diameters about it? I thank you for the posting, but what is the outer made out of? Ceramic? The lead core is warmer to the touch than the outer material.

Joe


#5

[quote=“Fede”]Joe, this is an interesting reload using a MGS two diameter bullet made between late 1940 and early 1950’s by Modern Gun Shop Bullet Co., Hollydale, California. Regards, Fede.

[/quote]

Fede,

Thanks for the picture. Can you explain more about the “two diameter bullet”? Are you referring to the inner core of lead and the outer of unknown material? Do you know what the outer material is?

Joe


#6

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9278&start=0

Ray Meketa seems to recall the jackets being copper tubing. I am almost tempted to scratch my projectile to see if it is copper metal under a coating of grey.

Joe


#7

Joe

I think this calls for a kinetic bullet puller. The second (larger) diameter may be inside the case neck and not readily apparent. Also, if it’s made from copper tubing you will be able to ID it by the base.

MGS made 8mm bullets in both popular diameters, BTW. .318" and .323".

Ray


#8

Ray,

I looked closely and I see the second step just barely above the mouth. Yes I could pull it, but I am wondering with that soft nose and odd shape, how I am going to reseat it without messing up the coating on the projectile.

Joe


#9

Joe - If you are an experienced handloader, you probably have the tools and know-how needed to re-seat any kind of bullet without leaving any marks. I do it a lot because I cannot stand not knowing what’s inside. But, otherwise, it’s probably best not to try it. I think in this case, it’s safe to assume that it’s a MGS bullet made from copper tubing because that is the only kind they made AFAIK.

You can’t know the bullet weight without pulling it. They made 8mm bullets in at least 6 different weights from 110 grains to 236 grains and you might be able to make a guess by weighing the cartridge. But you can only get in the church and not the right pew.

Ray


#10

Yea, I suppose I could make a seating plug out of wood using a 82* countersink and countering a hole for the lead tip to set free into. I also would like to weigh it and see what the ass end looks like. Pulling it is easy with a kinetic puller lined with cotton inside. Alright, you convinced me. I will post a picture as soon as I get it done.

joe


#11

Joe, the two diameter bullet (2D) has a lower portion of the body (bearing surface) having a diameter correct for this caliber, and as you noted it can be seen just barely above the mouth. I don’t know how it was manufactured but in some ads this company mentions a “plating process that eliminates metal fouling”. Regards, Fede.


#12

The bottom half measures 0.323". I am glad I pulled the projectile, as the inside of the case was all corroded and also the base of the projectile. I cleaned it up a bit with some fine bronze wool and it does seem to be copper tubing. Also a different plating on the part that was inside the case.

joe



#13

Joe, you don’t need a wood plug.

Just put the base of the bullet into the mouth of the case, then reverse the cartridge holding case+bullet in position and hit the base of the case with the kinetic hammer. Hit until you obtain the original OAL


#14

Pivi, I am trying to visualize what you are saying, but I just do not get it. A picture is worth a thousand words.

joe


#15

That’s an unusual base closure on the copper jacket. The usual way was to completely close the base, leaving only a small pucker. I’d be leery of the core shooting through the jacket, leaving the jacket lodged in the bore.

What Pivi is saying is to reverse the inertia operation. Use the inertia to seat the bullet rather than pull it. Think about it and it will come to you.

Joe, don’t overthink the value of this cartridge. After all, it is only a handload. If it was mine, I’d simply store it with the bullet seperate so that it (bullet) can be seen in all it’s glory. Or, better yet, section it (the cartridge, not the bullet). The interesting part of the bullet is inside the case neck.

JMHO

Ray


#16

Joe

Here are a couple of examples as food for thought.

Left is a wire-patched bullet, right is a Herters Wasp Waist Sonic. Both of these are handloads. Without being sectioned they are very ordinary looking cartridges.

Ray


#17

Ok, I get the kinetic thing now. Grip the base of the casing around the extractor groove with the collet, having the casing pointing towards the ceiling and out of the puller. Put the powder back in and bullet on top and tap slightly till you get it going. Never thought the colet would hold the base this way, but it does sufficiently. Anyways I think I am going to display with bullet fully visible.

joe


#18

Joe,

just put the edge of the base of the bullet just inside the mouth of the case

Then grab the bullet + case, reverse with the primer up. I usually hold the bullet in place with my little finger and palm

Then hit the base of the case with the inertia bullet puller. The bullet will enter inside the neck of the case gradually. Just check the OAL after each blow.

I use this method to make wildcats too ( for example necking up a case from .270 to 7 mm) without any problem


#19

I think Ray is right on. A fifty cent cartridge in my view, with the projectile being the only point of interest. The diameter of .323" tells the story. I doubt that I would even keep the case at all. After I got my first one of these, I only keep more than one to show that they were a production bullet, not a single, handmade thing, and also if I needed the headstamp or even the lot number, I would keep them, and leave them intact simply because it was easier than pulling the bullet.