Remington 8m/m M.C. Mauser box


#1

What does M.C. mean? Is it something like Metallic Cartridge? Inside there are 4 chargers of “REM-UMC 8mm” ammo.


#2

“Metal Covered”

Regards
TonyE


#3

Thanks, Tony. Metal covered as opposed to what? Lacquered?


#4

MC= Metal cased (projectile), if I remember correctly.


#5

haak is correct. It is “metal-cased” and not “metal-covered.” It is another way of saying FMJ nad while I prefer the term “FMJ” by far for less confusion of meaning, I dare say that in older
american catalogs, the abbreviation “MC” is used more than “FMJ.”


#6

To quote W.S.C., “Two nations separated by a common language”!

In the U.K. the term is “Metal covered”. Look in any Kynoch catalogue.

Regards
TonyE


#7

The packet is a Remington WWII ( or slightly before) “Military Export” ( or commonly “White Box”) Packet.
The Diction 8mm (or 7,9) is typical of the US Confusion as to “Correct Calibre” designation…Winchester never had this problem… their (Win/WCC) Mauser Packets only had “7,9mm” or “7,92mm”.

The Term “Metal Cased” was used on nearly all US Foreign Military Contract ammo ( .303,7mm, 7,9mm, 9mm, .45ACP, etc) made from at least WW I to well after WW II.

Kynoch also made “8mm/7,9mm” ammo, but this was mostly on Sporting ammo ( ten round red and yellow Boxes)

Regards,
Doc AV


#8

The term “metal cased” with reference to jacketed bullets was in use for sporting as well as military caliber cartridges in the American trade before the first war. Another expression–“metal patch”-- has a similar meaning and appears to be even earlier. Jack


#9

And don’t forget :

M. P. = Metal Point

M.C.H.P. = Metal Cased, Hollow Point

M.C.T.H. = Metal Cased Taper Heel

M.C.L = Mushroom Core-Lokt

M.Pen = Metal Penetrating

M = Match

Mush = Mushroom

That takes care of the “Ms”. Now in the “Ps”, we have . . .


#10

What does “Military Export” mean? Also, which country(s) was the intended recepient of this box?


#11

[quote=“sksvlad”]What does M.C. mean? Is it something like Metallic Cartridge? Inside there are 4 chargers of “REM-UMC 8mm” ammo.
[/quote]

Are the chargers in the box original and do they have any markings?

Happy collecting, Peter


#12

I guess they are post war Czech?


#13

The two lower ones (can’t say for the uppers):
Czechoslovak since Czech would be only after separation from Slovakia in 1992. The ones shown are made by S&B.


#14

Vlad

Those generic white boxes of ammunition by both Remington and Winchester are fairly common and can be found in a wide variety of calibers. They could be a military contract, a commercial contract, or overruns from a contract. The wording of the label can be what the customer ordered or it may be what R or W decided to use. The same for the headstamp. I’m not sure that it’s possible to tell the country or company they were made for. Maybe the code on the end flap is a clue but I really have no idea.

Ray


#15

Until after WW II (well into the Cold War) the US Gov’t did not export any US Military ammo ( ie, those with the US Gov’t headstamps, whether made by GOGO or GOCO or COCO Plants for the US DoD.).
When countries ordered "military "style ammo from the big Commercial makers ( USCCo, Winchester/Western, Remington, etc ( different companies existed at various times from 1900 to 1950s), the ammo was usually packed in "anonymous " or “Plain” packets with simple ammunition descritions, mostly in English (But pre-WW I Spanish was also used for the Latin America trade.

The crates were usually standard Win/Rem crates, of the commercial style ( painted/embossed wood, etc.).

That’s what I meant by “Military Export” context…being ammo produced by the US Commercial makers, on order for the armed Forces of various nations, using a FMJ (“Full metal Jacket”) or MC (“metal cased”) projectile. Ie, a definitely Military use cartridge.

The use of this type of “Export” continued into the 1960s, with Winchester making this “Generic Military” ammo for Indonesia ( .303, 7,9mm, 9mm, .45ACP, and probably .30/06 also) all using a “commercial style” headstamp (ie, NO year date) and also Early Israel (.303, 9mm, maybe 7.9mm at least) and various other countries. The Packets were all “whitebox types” similar or more spartan than the pre-WW II boxes.
I have a couple of Winchester Red embossed heavy Pine crates (1,000 of either .303 or 7,92) and one of 2000 .45ACP origin, all directed to Jakarta, in the 1950s. Except for the top printed Address on the case ( directly into the wood) the internal; cartons didn’t show any indication who was the customer. Basically “off the shelf” ammo for Military use.

After the 1960s, the US began supplying directly from DoD stores, US Military headstamped ammo for its Mil-aid programs ( along with Rifles, MGs etc.).

Winchester still kept supplying “military export” ammo, to various countries which did not rely on US Aid programs ( ie, the Irish .303 contract of the late 1980s, etc), but with a dated headstamp ( as requested by the Customer.)

US commercial contract ammo for Military buyers has dropped off, mostly due to Cost ( Euro and Asian suppliers can sell it more cheaply) and because of the large quantities of Milsurp still out there.
One could say that the US Gov’t effectively cut the legs out from under the US Commercial Military Export ammo business by using its “market Power” (large stocks of virtually free ammo) to undercut any commercial maker.

The “White Packet” is a source of interesting Historical military and Political shenanigans, if researched deeply enough…

Regards,
Doc AV


#16

It is interesting. I have several boxes of Remington White Box in .30 Remington RN-FMJ, labeled similarly to the 8mm box shown, and have received various opinions of what the purpose was. Probably not military. My guess is either law enforcement or prison guard use. I have a box of Winchester FMJ .30-'06 from the early 1930’s and the label says “Pointed Full Patch.”


#17

Dennis - I agree that your whte-box .30 Remington ammo was probably for the Prison System.
It is hard to come up with a term for these white boxes, especially since with the proliferation of
"white-box" ammunition on the current market any “use-limiting” terminology is probably no longer appropriate. I have always referred to the older ones as “Non-commercial contract” boxes, meaning they were not made for the commercial, gun-shop shelf sales. Many are military contracts, but not all.

Those clips are post-War Czech, and nothing to do with the box of ammo. I would simply take them off, as they denegrate the collectable nature of the packet and its ammunition.

I wish I had some Czech clips for the 7.62 x 45 round laying around here. In the picture, it looks like the clips in question are too small for the 7.9 x 57 head - note the cartridges stick out quite a bit at both ends of the clips. Of course, I can’t see if they are fully seated, either. I am
not sure you could even get a 7.9 round into one of the Czech vz 52 rifle clips.


#18

John, you can indeed force 7,9’s into a 7.62x45 charger, though it is difficult. It appears to me though that the cardboard box dividers are what is keeping the cartridges from being flush with the charger ends. JH


#19

These post 1945 Czech chargers are interesting indeed, there’s no shortage of them so I would guess that they were made in large quantities. It would be interesting to know the extent of Czech ammunition exports from 1945 until the curtailment of free trade once they’d fully succumbed to Russian authority. The ones in the earlier picture appear to have two lugs per side, an oddity when the determining feature of the 7,92x57 charger was to have three inline lugs per side. I wonder if this was left to the discretion of the customer … and why.

Does anyone have any information on Czech exports, who they sold to and when?

The other country that used two lug chargers was Portugal, the ones with the fairly dramatic diference of colours found on the springs due to tempering variations.

Happy collecting, Peter Mackinven

Edited once, spelling errors and a banality


#20

Jim is right about the paper separators. I left the box as I got it, even though I don’t think it came with chargers, and definitely not with these ones. Peter, I do not see any markings on the only charger with 3 lugs, and the one next to it with 2 lugs has nothing on it either.