Remington "Black Belt" G.S. pistol loads


#1

Announced at the recent 2013 SHOT show, Remington is doing a new mechanically bonded-jacket/core bullet (they call it “mechanilokt”), which seems to be the hip thing lately as Hornady is also touting their “Critical Duty” line with this key feature. The Remington idea is basically taking Golden Saber bullets and strapping a black band (plastic or anodized-copper?) around the cannellure of the bullet which pinches the jacket into the core and prevents core / jacket separation. This line of ammo will be defensive pistol calibers with the name “Black Belt”. The giant sectioned bullet model in photo 3 below would be an awesome collectible!

There is an article with explanations here:
http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2013/01/27/remington-golden-saber-black-belt-ammo-more-information/


#2

Wow - cool! DK - will this be available commercially? If you are going to order it, you can put me down for a full box of each auto pistol caliber! I hope this isn’t going to be another silly “LE Only” round, as if the defensive needs of a Police Officer were any different that that of any other “ordinary” citizen under attack by a felon.

By the way, picture “3” of the section bullet, doesn’t seem to be on the thread??? Or am I just really blind and senile in my old age - possible, for sure!


#3
  1. I sure hope the band isn’t plastic…seems like a bad thing waiting to happen, and I don’t think it’d hold up.

  2. I’m sure that, esp. with recent hysteria, that Remington will at least initially have this restricted by policy to law enforcement only (same as their Bonded Golden Saber). Like most similar restrictions though, the stuff always shows up at gun shows and is eventually repackaged/relabeled as ‘civilian’ ammo. (At least one CA county law recently listed “ammunition intended for law enforcement” and “Black Talon” as specifically verboten. Stupid, but increasingly popular).

  3. Federal’s HST was the first LEO ammo that I recall having the ‘locked’ jacket…is there any previous, different applications in other projectiles? AA, HEAT, etc.?

  4. Lastly, Remington will really miss the boat if they don’t go for Chuck Norris’ endorsement on the commercial side. If he endorses laundry detergent, surely he’d go for this.


RP 9mm Black Belt-New Version of the Load?
#4

Nice cartridge! I wonder how they put the ring around the bullet. Is there an engineer in tha house that can clearify that?


#5

John - as soon as I can get some I will I will. If they do restrict it to L.E.O., then it will inevitably show up on Gunbroker pretty quickly along with all of the Ranger SXT, Federal HST, etc… I figured that the “designed for law enforcement” marking was to hype it up for retail sale, just as Remington and others have done when they mark ammo as “law enforcement grade”.

I fixed the 3rd photo, I think the origin detected and disabled hotlinks, but I just saved it, hosted it, and re-posted it.

Mike - When I say this is sort of the new fad in terms of bonding, I meant mechanical bonding when there is either a hard physical crimp, or band. Was the earlier bonding in HST and Ranger bonded stuff more chemical than physical, or just internal structure that can’t be seen on the outside of the bullet?


#6

DK,

All HST pills have a ‘locking crimp’ to prevent core/jacket separation…no actual ‘bonding’. That’s one thing that made the HST a winner on the Federal side of the ATK house…retained weight and jacket without the expensive Trophy Bonded treatment of their Tactical Bonded lineup.

Hal joked during a class that the Federal guys were ribbing the Speer guys about the HST being cheaper and doing allllmost as well as like Gold Dot projos in the FBI protocols. Funny how the Gold Dot is sold widely as defensive and hunting ammo (pistol and rifle), while the Federal Trophy Bonded process only goes commercial in centerfire hunting cartridges (mostly .30cal+ rifle).

Speer Gold Dot/Federal Fusion, Winchester Ranger Bonded (to the best of my knowledge) and Federal Tactical Bonded are all fancy scientificky chemical/other bonding processes, as opposed to a mechanical lock/crimp/band (HST, Hornady Critical Duty) or the ‘hula-hoop’ on those Remington BB GSHPs.


#7

I’ve been reading up on internet posts about any new & exciting ammo debuted at this years 2014 SHOT show, and I found mention of Remington again showing this “Black Belt” ammo. Hopefully they actually manage to get this ammo into the retail stream this year, and I am optimistic since a good quantity of the more expensive self-defense ammo in different calibers seems to be staying on the store shelves of late in my area.


#8

There has been some recent activity with this Black Belt ammo finally, with an article in the recent Guns & Ammo magazine issue for August, and some cartridges being circulated for testing to bloggers, etc… Hopefully by November this will be available through online retailers.

Some new photos showing close-ups of the bullet, and a box label. I believe the index number on the box reads “GSN9MMDB” :

Here are two images showing what the Remington Defense 2014 catalog shows for the Black Belt:


#9

I’ll start digging and see if I can get some DK.

And oh dear Lord is that some ugly ammo!


#10

It looks like there are cases of 9mm starting to hit the market. Action Firearms in Ft Lauderdale, FL has it in stock (though they don’t do mail order), and Osage County Guns in Belle, MO has had it listed as in stock. I just did a Gunbroker search and picked up some boxes of it as well - there were a couple other sellers selling case or half-case quantities on Gunbroker still.


#11

I received some boxes of this ammo in 9mm yesterday. Nothing new to show as far as boxes or cartridge & bullet, but the headstamp did look a little different to my eye in that they used a black P.A. seal. Is this something new for Remington on 9x19? I also pried the little ring from a pulled bullet, and it appears to be aluminum painted black. This image scan doesn’t quite do the black sealer justice, but it is a very obvious black seal when you see it in person:


#12

Matt, this is a very interesting design, thanks a lot for the update. Please, can you check if the belt is magnetic?


#13

It is a non-magnetic belt even to a very strong magnet, which led me to believe it is probably aluminum. When I scratch the black coating away it is a silver color.


#14

Matt, thanks for checking. The patent mentions several possible materials, including brass, GM, copper, mild steel (electroplated using copper, zinc, brass or nickel), and nylon. It also mention the possibility of using color codes to identify different loads. I wonder if we will see some of this in the future. Regards, Fede.


#15

Just came across a new box style for this type. This apparently will be the type of box that will come out for retail sale soon in 9mm, .40S&W, and .45acp.


#16

DK, Recently another collector mentioned that he thought the early Black Belt rounds had a thicker black belt than the later ones that are now on the market. Have you got any evidence of this?

Has anyone else compared the early and later rounds?

Cheers,
Lew


#17

So far, I only have a few of the 25rd black & white boxes, which are all the same. I have been looking at purchasing a 50rd box of the same style, mostly just to get the box, but I believe they are the same era / same type. When these new color boxes come available then there might be something to compare. I do have one of the black rings removed from the rds which I have now, so I could weigh it against any other ring in grains to be sure.


#18

Hereby two pictures of my Black Belt, got it at the ECRA2916 in Holland.
Copy of box label says GY16-6*

It has a black annulus and the size of the black belt can bee seen on the macropicture.

The belt of this example is non magentic.

Grtz
Jaco


#19

Jaco,

Very interesting box label, thanks for posting. Very different than the earlier black label boxes shown in the earlier posts above.

Is it known whether this is Remington’s version of the label for (law enforcement oriented) marketing in Europe or is this new label the standard for marketing by Remington world wide?

Brian

PS- Just noticed the spelling error in the label, “Degigned” which I assume should read “Designed”


#20

Jaco, The photo is the card I put in with the cartridges I bring over. Bdgreen caught my late night typing error. The box label is on the right side of the card and the other info on the card is my description. The gray “GY16-6” simply means that I brought it over for the 2016 meeting in Germany (April 2016) and I brought 6 rounds.

These rounds are from a box that dates from the first half of 2014. I suspect that the rumor of some rounds having a thicker belt is just a rumor. A collector asked me if I had both the thick and thin belt variations. I told him that I had no idea, and could he send me a photo showing the difference. No picture ever arrived so I suspect there is not a variation in belt thickness. If I am wrong, will someone please let me know?

Cheers,
Lew