Remington UMC Export Box?


#1

I have never seen this box before.
It contains 25 REM-UMC 380AP headstamped rounds.
Cn Primer, tinned fmj
Code on back of box is
18 B G
Code on from is
486-Q
Is this a export box?
Date?
Thanks,
Bob R.


#2

Bob, The code on the back is probably 18 BO rather than BG. This would be the second half of 1930 which is consistent with the design of the box.

Cheers,
Lew


#3

Bob - I have the same style box in .32 auto, and I am sure these 25-rounders were for export. Firstly, their scarcity in their country of origin, the USA, almost demands that explanation. In the case of my box, the top line of the label is the caliber, but in Metric - “7.65 m/m BROWNING” with the second line of print being “(.32 Auto. Colt).” Further, the headstamp pictured on the cartridge on the top label is “REM-UMC 7.65 m/m” with the primer having a “U” on it. This is an export metric headstamp.

Oddly, since the “7.65 m/m” headstamp exists, the one cartridge specimen I received with this box is “REM-UMC .32 ACP” with copper primer cup stamped “U.” Of course, I have zero guarantee that it is the correct cartridge for the box, except the assurance years ago of the person I obtained it from (from a Spanish-speaking country, by the way) and the fact the round shows about the same “wear and tear” as does the box.

While there is a lot number on the back, stamped in purple ink, I cannot read it as it is stamped right over the Guarantee information (in English and Spanish) and is faint as well. When I have time, I will scan it and try to enhance it enough to read the lot number, if any one cares.


#4

Enhanced to the best of my meager abilities, the lot number on my 25-Round Rem-UMC 7.65 m/m Browning box appears to be either “0 13K 3” or “0 18K 3”.

If I was a gambling man, I would go with the former - “0 13K 3” but it isn’t easy to read.


#5

John, “O” was not used as a year code (ie first letter) nor was Q. The closest I can come would be “U” which would put your box in the first half of 1927. Sorry!

Cheers,
Lew


#6

Lew - I will send you the two scans I made, one of the top of the box and one of the bottom. Perhaps you will have better luck than I in interpreting it. A knowledge of the lot number “styles” is probably helpful in reading it, like with anything else were part of a word is blurred or missing but you know enough about the language to read it anyway. “Prbbly t ws yr dg tht brkd lst nght.” An example, which I’ll bet most people on this forum can read even though every vowel is removed.

If you want to post the pictures on this thread, it is ok by me. I am not sure they add much to the question, except that the use of the metric designation for the cartridge on this style box (25-round box, not normal for the US market of the time), which helps mark it (my 7.65 Browning Box) as being for export.


#7

John, I think it is G 13K 3. This makes sense. It would be 13 May 1915.

On 9mm Luger boxes the labels changed slightly between 1914 and 1917. The earlier boxes read:

THE REMINGTON ARMS - UNION METALLIC CARTRIDGE Co (or sometimes just REMINGTON…)
AMMUNITION & FIREARMS

By sometime in 1917 it changed, and the style below was used into 1921;

THE REMINGTON ARMS - UNION METALLIC CARTRIDGE Co (or sometimes just REMINGTON…)
INCORPORATED
AMMUNITION AND FIREARMS

Your 7.65mm label is of the earlier style and dates right in the period when the change was occurring.

Cheers,
Lew

PS: I got interested in my own posting so decided to extend it a bit. The dates below are all 9mm Luger dates. Other calibers may differ a bit because labels were used until they were exhausted so labels changed at different times on different calibers.

In 1922 another style was introduced and continued into at least 1923

REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, INC.
Successor to
The REMINGTON ARMS - UNION METALLIC CARTRIDGE COMPANY INCORPORATED
MANUFACTURER OF
AMMUNITION AND FIREARMS

By 1925 this had changed again and was used until the introduction of green “Dogbone” box in 1931

REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY, INC.
AMMUNITION AND FIREARMS

Note that this last style is the one on Bob Ruebel’s 1930 box.

PPS: Corrected to G 13K 3 per John Moss post below! John, the significance of the last number is unknown, Speculation is that it is the loading line or the shift or the inspector or something else. I just wasn’t paying attention to it.


#8

Lew - you are probably correct about that lot number. The last entry still looks more like a “3” to me, but again, I don’t know anything about the “choices” of entries there are in Remingtons lot-numbering system of the time, and you do. I certainly accept your opinion here.

I am surprised that my 7.65 mm box, so similar to Bob’s .380 box, were made so far apart. The lack of any metric designation for the caliber (9 mm Browning Short) on his box does not surprise me, as the .380 is generally considered to be an “inch caliber” whereas the 6.35 mm Browning and 7.65 mm Browning are usually considered to be “metric.” I know there are arguments on both - I am speaking only of a general “common knowledge” that has often been expressed in print.