Remington UMC Paper Bulleted .303 round


#1

Can anyone give me any info on these rounds, I have a photo of the packet it came from please see photo’s below




hope this works not posted photos for a while.

I bought this from a fellow collector at an ECRA meeting a few years ago I am just trying to find out anything about it and a date if possible.

many thanks
Richard


#2

Richard somewhere on the box or perhaps in the end flaps should be a load date code like 23CPS or 19AB or 19JD30. It is usually in dark red or black ink. Post this code and I’ll try to make sense of it.

Cheers,
Lew


#3

Unfortunately I only have a photo of the box Lew and there isn’t a code anywhere I can see

Richard


#4

Perhaps one of our primer experts could help date the rounds by the underlined “U” copper primer? I am probably the least knowledgable cartridge collector in the world on the subject of primers.

The box style should help to. I think this is pretty early stuff.


#5

We unfortunately can’t see the top, which would give us the Remington company name used at the time, however, based on the primer, the headstamp, the firearms mentioned, and the box style, (known as “Split-Logo”) I would put it at 1912 - 1916. The yellow/orange paper bullet is typical of this time frame also…

Very nice box!!

Randy


#6

Many thanks, I didn’t think it would be that early so I am very pleased would these have been military training rounds.

I wish I had the box but I only got a photo with the round

thanks again

Richard


#7

This is similar to the British .303 Blank Mark 1 which was declared obsolete in 1895, however, differs in the colour of the paper bullet. The official military blank bullet had either a blue or brown paper covering with a white tip.

The reference to Lee Metford on the label seems to indicate an early 1900s manufacture.
Real nice packet.


#8

Paper and wood were used in training blanks throughout the world. Many rifles had attachments for the muzzle that ensured the paper or wood splintered/disintegrated upon exiting the barrel.


#9

I would wonder if the pictured blank wasn’t made like the .30 M1898 and M1906 blanks, thus having a void inside the paper bullet containing a small charge of powder to insure the bullet broke up after firing. Jack


#10

Does anyone have a sectioned one of these or a drawing showing the construction, I wont be section my .303 but it would be interesting to see a drawing

Richard.


#11

Rich…

Three Krag Blanks…
On the left, a sectioned Western Cartridge Co, showing the interior construction; the Remington’s should be similar…
Center: a Remington-UMC from the same era with more pointed bullet…
Right: a Remington-UMC just like your .303…

Randy


#12

Frankford Arsenal drawing showing the Paper Bullet Blank…(I do not have a Remington drawing)

Randy


#13

Great stuff many thanks Randy, I really enjoy trying to find out about each cartridge I collect. I sometimes feel a bit like a cheat asking for help on here because some people feel you should trawl through thousands of documents and drive for miles to look at stuff but I just don’t have access to that kind of stuff or the time to go searching. I think the internet is a fantastic resource with trusted forums like this and websites like Tony’s on .303 and many more I could mention we really have a wonderful chance to learn and share I have even been able to help a few people out myself now but it is only due to the great help I have been given over the years

thanks again to everyone

Rich


#14

Rich - your comments are well taken. Many people either do not have the financial resources to build a huge archive of their own, or can’t get around to shows and the like, even though they are very interested in ammunition. Others do not have the burning interest in the subject that some of us do, but they have a right to seek out an answer to any question that they DO have. That is what a forum is for. For the collecting aspects of ammunition, I firmly believe that this is the best Forum on the net to get answers to a question about it. There are other forums that deal much more deeply with reloading, and some other technical aspects of ammunition, but they are not “collector oriented” (and no reason they should be).

I think the general consensus among the folks on this Forum is that all questions asked with a genuine desire for the information are worthy of the best answers they can give.

I look at the spread of nationalities of those active on this forum and think to myslef what a great world it could be if everyone was a cartridge collector! We wouldn’t have a world full of conflict (plenty of argument over ammo subjects, but if everyone agreed with the first answer we would never find out much of anything, would we?).

Thanks for posting those nice photos of your .303 and box. I don’t collect that caliber anymore, but my “love affair” with my four Enfield-type rifles has been ongoing since I was a young child. I have collected various rifle rounds on and off, always going back to my original love of auto pistols and their cartridges, but with all that over 50 years of collecting, I just found out that some bulleted-blank cartridges have powder in the projectile to help them self-destruct for safety reasons. I never knew that before you posted your thread.
I’m a “fast learner.” Took me only 50 years to find it out. :-)