Remington white box ammunition-45ACP

General Ammunition Discussion
#1

I have just acquired a couple of boxes of white box Remington-UMC 45 ACP ammunition. The lettering on the box is green.
There is a July 1940 lot/date code on the back of the box. Oilproof is on the end flaps. Adapted to colt automatic pistols and Thompson Submachineguns is printed on the bottom. It says Kings mills ohio plant also. I thought this was Peters.
The head stamps are just REM-UMC 45 ACP violet primer sealant is present.

Anybody in this forum have any idea what I have?
Is it law enforcement or lend lease ammo>
Thanks

Remington .45 Auto Box Box Code R397A
Remington .45 Auto Box Box Code R397A
#2

Gastrap–As for the Kings Mill, Ohio address, it is the old Peters plant. DuPont bought both Peters and Remington in 1934 and combined them into one company. They maintained separate identities until 1961 as the Peters Division and the Remington Division of DuPont, Inc., but the facilities were shared by both Divisions. A cartridge headstamped PETERS could have been actually made in the Bridgeport, Conn. Remington plant as in the old Peters facility, and vice versa for REM-UMC headstamped ammo.

#3

I think that is a box of British contract ammunition ordered by the British Purchasing Commission. .45 ACP ammunition was ordered from both Remington and Winchester Western, mainly for Thompson sub machine guns.

A small but important point is that it is NOT lend Lease ammunition. The Lend Lease Act did not become law until March 1941 ans all the ammunition ordered by Britain for the first eighteen months of the war was paid for from British gold reserves.

It would be very helpful if you could post a scan of the box.

I have just written an article on British ammunition purchases in America prior to Lend Lease for the IAA Journal which Chris P tells me should be published in the May 2012 edition.

Regards
TonyE

#4

A picture would be good for clarification, especially regarding the Kings Mills address. In July 1940, the Kings Mills Ordnance Plant (which at first made small amounts of military .45 ACP in early 1942 - including a few steel-cased rounds headstamped R A 42 - but produced mainly .30 Carbine) had not yet been built. I had always understood that the existing old Peters plant at Kings Mills had been producing only shotshells in the immediate pre-war period, metallic production having been transferred to Bridgeport. So it seems there were Kings Mills legends printed on some boxes used for Bridgeport-made metallic ammunition.

#5

My buff cardboard .45 Automatic box, with green printing, from Remington has the address lines of Remington Arms Company, Incorporated, Bridgeport, Conn. Ilion, N.Y. Kings Mills, Ohio (printed at the bottom of the back label and on two lines). The word “Incorporated” is spelled out, not abbreviated, just as I showed it.

Regarding the first box mentioned on this thread, were we given the complete address lines? That is, is “King’s MIll” the only factory mentioned? On my box, the three factory names clearly are simply an expression of the factories making up the Remington Arms Company, Inc., and no one of them is, as printed, an indication of where the ammunition was made.

Gastrap - will you please confirm whether or not your box has all the factory names, or only King’s Mill? If it has all of them, it will end all the speculation made here about where the ammunition was made - it will have been made at the Bridgeport Works.

My box, at the top of the bottom printing, also mentions the Colt Automatic and Thompson Sub-Machine guns. Their is also a blurb about the OILPROOF primer, and the usual quality-assurance statement.

The cartridges are brass case, copper primer with dark purple primer seal and A GM FMJ RN bullet. The case has a bullet-seating cannelure. Manufacture’s index number is R397A. When the end tabs that tuck into the box are pulled out, it can be seen that both say “OILPROOF” on the top of them.The box has printing on all six sides. All of the print is in green, including a stamped lot number. Because it is stamped over the print about the Oilproof Priming, it is hard to read. There is one entry, totally blurred, followed by what appears to be “10 D” but no guarantee on that being correct.

#6

Something I wish I knew more about - Back in the 1920s and 30s, my grandfather had a good friend who worked at Peters (Kings Mills), and when he visited, he always came bearing gifts of shotshells and .22 cartridges. My grandfather died in 1960, so all I know is from the memory of him telling me stories aout his friend, and he still had some of that ammunition then (now long gone). We lived in southern Ohio (about 100 miles from Kings Mills) at the time.

The ruins of the Peters plant at Kings Mills may still be there, I saw them about 20-25 years ago. Or they could have been demolished by now.

#7

Gastrap - are you still out there? It would be nice if you could confirm whether or not the back label of your .45 box shows only the Kings Mill plant, or if it shows all three plants (Ilion NY and Bridgeport Conn) as well. for the record, it is best to complete a thread, rather than leave it dangling.

#8

Gentlemen:

I ran across this old thread while looking for information on a box of this white boxed Remington .45 ACP ammunition which I had picked up a while back. As usual, great info here. I knew it was a pre-War box but only suspected that it was direct purchase ammo by the British Purchasing Commission. Thanks, Tony E., for that confirmatory nugget. That would date this ammo to 1940-41, I suppose.

Someone above asked for pics of the box. I don’t know what the original poster’s box looked like but here are a couple of quick scans of mine. I think it must be identical to that mentioned by John Moss above. It has all three locations printed on the box, bears lot code Y19E, and mentions the suitability of the ammo for Colt autos and Thompson SMGs.

(My apologies for the hand-written sticky note on my box. I put that there as a reminder of what the headstamp says so I won’t have to break open the shrink-wrapping.)

Regards,
Charlie Flick

#9

Y19E would be the middle of 1940.

Tony Edwards once told me the British records indicated they also bought 9mmP from Remington about this time. Has anyone seen a Remington green & white 9mm Luger box like the 45ACP box above?

Cheers,
Lew