I was asked a question about Remington white box ammunition (one piece). I’ve seen such boxes, which are plain white with plain black printing, no graphics, having a Bridgeport address. Were these made for law enforcement/prison use or what? What would be the dating on such boxes, also calibers? Last one I saw was in .30 Remington with 160 grain FMJ bullets (#2330), but I may have seen other calibers.
This subject came up before and I was asking pretty much the same questions.
Maybe someone will have some more info on these.
I made a SWAG on the previous thread and was 100% wrong. But that was nearly two years ago and I’ve made a couple of inquiries in the meantime, which leads me to another SWAG.
You will find many of those generic “white boxes”, both Remington and Winchester, in a wide variety of calibers. It’s been suggested, and I tend to concur, that they are overruns from contracts for various govt and private agencies. Or, they may be part of the contract itself, such as the AMU boxes of International Match ammunition, that find their way into the market.
I agree with Ray. They are primarily contract boxes - for military and police, foreign and domestic. Some of the more modern “white boxes” have commercial art of them. They could be for police or for commercial sale of overruns, or perhaps even “second quality” ammunition.
The FMJ bulleted loads in some of the Remington and Winchester rifle cartridges are usually in calibers of guns used in police departments and prisons, such as the .30, .32, and .35 Remington series, the .25-35 and .30-30, and the .351 and .401 Winchester - all for firearms types that were popular with LE, primarily lever action, pump and semi-auto. Pistol types include .45 probably used more in Tommy Guns than in pistols.
I don’t know if it is still true, but it was Federally illegal for prisons to use SN or HP ammunition in their rifles. San Quentin Prision, in Marin Country, California, right across the Golden Gate from San Francisco, had lots of nice old .25-35 Winchester Model 1894 Carbines. They sold them to us (actually traded them for Model 94s in .30-30, unfortunately in the 1970s when the “new” 94s were still pretty much junk. I could not fathom why they were trading nice pre-war 94s (used, but good solid guns with mint bores) for those Model 94 .30-30s. A guard captain that was in a group I used to shoot with on occasion (on the SQ Prison Range, which could be signed out by Public groups, although it helped to know someone at the Prison) told me about the law, and that they could not get any of the factories to make them FMJ loads in .25-35 anymore. We got almost no ammo from them - I suspect they destroyed it - but I don’t recall boxes for any of it regardless. I would bet it was “white box” though.
In the 1970s, could “destroyed” have meant that they shot it all up on the range?
Gareth - absolutely, but generally any “official” ammunition user will not shoot up ALL the ammunition they have; some is retained for emergencies.
However, again, it is certainly possible that was the case. I cannot dispute that, nor even care to. It is a perfectly valid possibility especially in light of the fact that they would know they were getting rid of the rifles, and that any dealer would give them almost nothing for the ammunition.
That is what I was thinking, if they knew that the ammunition was worthless and they were selling off the rifles, then shooting it all would be the obvious thing to do. I suppose that they had their new rifles and ammunition inside the prison before the old ones were released as surplus.
Falcon - No, actually, as I recall, we delivered the new rifles and picked up the old ones. Or they delivered and picked up from us, I don’t remember exactly. Not important - I am sure they had enough weaponry about the prison to take care of a dramatic emergency (Shotguns, TSMGs, etc.)
There is also the possibility that the ammo just went ‘home’ with prison employees who used that calibre rifle for their personal shooting.
White box ammo even make it here to Europe, Winchester examples in my collection are pre '62 “CAL. 30 M2 150 GR. BULLET” and post '62 “CAL. 30ANM2 150 GR. FULL METAL CASE”. both 20 pcs boxes. Both come from a ammo cabinet clearout in one of the local clubs.
Well, I went to a gun show today, and on one of the tables were four boxes of the Remington white-box .30 Remington (160 grain RN-FMJ, Index # 2330) with a Bridgeport address. All cases had R-P headstamps, which, along with the Bridgeport address, would indicate manufacture sometime in the 1960’s. Further, there is no child warning, which would suggest the early 1960s. The guy that had them didn’t know anything about their source or purpose. He thought they were “military.” So the mystery remains. Anyway, I went home with two of the four boxes. I can always shoot them, as I didn’t pay that much.