Replica Cartridges, Unmarked, Being Produced & Sold In The Ukraine

The following is from a thread on the GUNS.RU forum:
https://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/216/2545533.html

The thread was started by member “Eng. Den”, if you open the thread and use Google translator much of the conversation concerning replica cartridges being made and sold in the Ukraine is understandable. It appears these REPLICA cartridges are not marked to identify them as replicas.

Below are some of the photos posted by “Eng. Den” to show examples of the replica cartridges.

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Brian

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Nicely done! For experts sure identifyable but to be fair a reproduction marking would make it perfect.

I do not like reproductions at all but the 8-line cartridge there could be nice to have.

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The author positions them as replicas, and sells them as replicas, they differ very much from the originals, and this can be seen from far.
And the Russians don’t mind buying these up.

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AZOV2014,

Your point is well understood. The problem arises when some people try to sell, for a substantial profit, these types of replica cartridges as real cartridges to uninformed people. This has been going on for years and has occurred in collecting communities all around the world not just the Ukraine.

Brian

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Well, this is already a matter of conscience of the resellers, if you looked at his ads on Reibert, you noticed that everywhere it says that these are replicas.

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In a few years time someone who owns one or more of the unmarked replicas, wife, son, daughter or heir will be selling them as the original owner is now dead and they will not know they are replicas but think them to be rare and real, they don’t collect & it was in Dad’s collection so it must be genuine… and it’s not marked replica or fake so it must be OK
They will then sell to another who does not realize they are replicas as by then these might show patine or some dings & look genuine and as they have not seen a genuine example to compare the replica with, the buyer is then screwed.

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I would submit that anyone who pays big money for a Mars cartridge with a sparkling-bright brass case and/or a hole drilled case, and who thinks such a cartridge is authentic… deserves to have their money taken.

Matt, you would be surprised how many real cartridges and amongst them very rare ones are around in the former USSR and they all have holes as law is predicting it.
And I think an enthusiastic newbie (we all have been at some point) does not deserve to be cheated on his probably first purchase of a potentially rare cartridge (I have learned this the hard way). This will scare people away from the subject and our community will be even smaller.
In the first place I think that greedy “businessmen” (and clueless second hand owners) have to be prevented from cheating others by having propper repro markings. No honest person should mind this I think as it is a repro anyways.
So preventing idiots is better than harming newbies.
Or short: nobody is a born specialist.

Just my personal view of course.

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I agree with many above…without some kind of Replica marking these will turn into expensive “fakes” in a very short time.

Pete, I can relate. I know my dad had fakes but they were set aside as examples of dingbats (a word I recently learned). Anyway, that’s why I’m going through each and every cartridge and coming here when I get stumped. Im making sure the dingbats are ending up with the trench art. I’ve learned a lot here real fast! V/r Henry

I agree with Alex as well. I won’t mention names but there’s been a couple IAA members that, I feel, have attempted to take advantage of me being ‘new’. That’s why I would always advocate joining the IAA though, it’s a great forum for educating oneself.

And DK, my dad always said that a fool and his money are soon parted lol

I can tell you that I have been “collecting” cartridges for the better part of 50 years, and I have been known to pay too much [uhm, last month?] for somehing, not necessarily because I did not know what it WAS, as much as I REALLY wanted it, and- in one case- I just did not want the other guy to have it!

AMEN !
What I was trying to say

My thoughts about replica’s in my collection
When I get a replica or fake, that is important enough for me to keep in my collection.
I simply write with a permanent marker REPLICA on the case. So I, and everybody else that might get this piece knows it is not a genuine round. What future people will do with that info is out of my reach!
But replica’s are only kept until I find a genuine one, then the replica will be destroyed so people can not use them the wrong way anymore.

regards rené

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René, once nothing is goint to leave your hands anymore then a permanent marking would be recommendable as the permanent marker will be the first “businessmen” will wipe off.

Though I saw once a cartridge with 2 additinal “R” (3h and 9h) for “reproduction” - added to the otherwise standard hs of a round of shooting quality.
The seller declared it an experimental hs and auctioned it for 900 Euro (~1000 US $)…

Bill Woodin had a drawer full of what he called “dingbats”(fakes, etc).

Lol, I have a few myself…

I have one I actually found at a range about 30 years ago: a .44 Spl necked UP to a .45, if I can find it I will post a picture.

Many moons ago i did a 45 on a 30 carbine case.
Now i just need to invent a gun for it!
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