Roberson .310 Cadet/Greener

Not sure if this has already been posted…
Jeff is coming out with some interesting cartridges for the handloader.

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Now I wish I had left my BSA Martini Cadet .310 rifle alone 55 years ago. Wanting to shoot it, we arranged reboring to .357 Magnum by Ward Koozer. That required changing the front sight to a Williams “Shorty Ramp.” If we could have gotten .310 brass, or ammo then I would have left it alone. Shoots great, but I like even quasi-military rifles “as is.” Great for the guys that still have these in original military condition. Nice headstamp. Thanks for posting.

John M.

Sure wish he would sell singles, He says he does but when you send him a list from his production list you get no reply. Frustrating.

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Post a query, maybe find 19 [or 49, not sure of box quantity] other people who will split a box?

per site: minimum order of 50 pcs. @ $3.87 ea.

frank - is that for 50 pieces, or for each single case, with a minimum order of 50 required?

John

$3.87/case, so $193 and some change for 50

I’ll take back what I said - at that price, I am glad my Cadet Rifle is .38 Spl/.357 magnum now!!!

john

John: Since the .310 Cadet uses a heel type bullet even hand loading would be a challenge, requiring a special two diameter bullet, the mould for which would likely be a special order item itself. Jack

Bertram Brass here in Australia has new unprimed .310 cadet cases priced at one Australian dollar per case (67 cents US) with a minimum order of 20 rounds. This price list is 12 months old and he doesn’t always have every calibre in stock but if anyone wants me to bring a box to SLICS with me I can.

I am assuming that the headstamp follows his usual format with:
.310 at 12 o’clock
BB at 6 o’clock
Kangaroo (profile) at 3 and 9 o’clock

CNC machined is expensive brass, I sell original cartridges for that price.

Jack, not that it matters in my case, since mine is .357 Magnum now, I am sure there are other bullets that could be handloaded in .310 Cadet. It is not necessary that they have the identical bullet to the factory loads. Australian, in fear of Japanese Invasion, even loaded some .310 Cadet cartridges with Long, spitzer-type bullets, no problem of length in a single-shot rifle where the cartridge must be introduced into the chamber by hand. They were for combat use by Cadets in case the worst scenario happened - an attempt by the Japanese to occupy Australia, which of course, never went off except for a brief occupation of a small island in Northern Australia.

John Moss

I have gotten a few orders from Jeff.
Just ask for the Over Run stock list, and hope you order before someone else gets the last one.
Dan

John: If one is to have accuracy in a rifle chambered for a cartridge having a heel type bullet (i.e. that portion of bullet forward of case mouth is same size as cartridge neck) a mould casting such a bullet is necessary, or perhaps a swage that could create this shape. I don’t know how accurate the Australian .310 cartridges were in the cadet rifles, being of conventional bullet-same-size-as-case mouth, but they probably weren’t up to a level an American sporting shooter would find acceptable. Jack

Could be Jack. I have never seen any test reports on the performance of the Martini carbine fired with the military “emergency” ball cartridges done by MF in Australia during WW2. Acceptance by American sport shooters is not a criteria for accuracy acceptance in military rifles. I have never seen any AK type rifle, for example, including the Galil but with the exception of the Valmet 62, that was acceptable to me, and I am not any champion rifle shooter. (Before the assault rifle ban in California, I owned three versions of soviet style AKs, a Valmet, and a Galil). The Martinis themselves, with the sighting equipment on them (talking just about the cadet model here) are likely only capable, in the hands of the average shooter, of mediocre accuracy. Mine was rebored by Ward Koozer, perhaps the all-time master of reboring, and from a bench was fairly accurate with all kinds of .38 bullets - very good with factory match wadcutters, but I needed the steadiness of the bench to make up for the bad sights.

My comments were just that one can likely make satisfactory plinking ammo for one of those little Martinis using lead bullets of conventional type, not that such a practice would be as good as if heel-type bullets were available.

John

A couple of comments.
The original .310 was loaded with a lead bullet as we all know.
Australia received a request from New Guinea for a supply of Lee Enfieldf rifles, but due to the losses during WW!, we couldn’t assist. Instead we had large stocks of .310 Cadet Martini, so supplied them.
In 1929 Footscray received two orders from New Guinea for 10,000 rounds. Because they didn’t have drawings for the bullet, they drew up a CN jacketed one, based on the original round nosed lead bullet. These orders were delivered to New Guinea which is why they are a scarce item.
In the same year, the factory designed a new bullet based on the shape of the .303 Mk. 7. The drawing, labelled Cartridge S. A. Ball .310 Mk III shows this used the primer from the .455 Webley. When the .32 Revolver and .32 Auto were produced, the cap chamber of the .310 was redesigned to use the smaller cap (primer).
Six variants are documented.
.310 with round nosed lead bullet.
.310 Blank
.310 (Mk II ?) round nosed CN jacket…
.310 Mk III pointed CN jacket. Large primer
.310 Mk III pointed CN jacket. Small primer
.310 Mk III pointed GM jacket.

There are a few dummy/drill rounds which may or may not be factory manufacture. Footscray denied making any drill rouonds, but!!!.

John is correct, accuracy and stopping power were not the greatest, hence the change to the spitzer shape in an attempt to improve both.

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My selection of Australian .310 Cadet Cartridges .

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Attached is a very rough photo of a .310 Cadet Drill. The red wooden distance piece makes it look authentic, however the area around the case mouth and crimp lead me to think its been done at a later date.

.310 Cadet Drill

Ron, as a matter if interest, which of your rounds have the MG headstamp ??
I’m guessing its the GM envelope.
Up to a point all the MkIII s were made at MF. Because of the demand for .303s it was decided to transfer production to MG. Sometime between 15th September and 9th October 1942 Personnel, tooling and part finished ammunition was transferred overnight with no loss of production. MG kept producing until there was no longer a requirement.

The three CN projectiles match the first three headstamps.
The second set of headstamps are all GM projectiles and brass primers.
Note the different flat and rounded threes in the headstamps.