Romanian "CUGIR" head stamps


#1

Since about 2001 Romanian “SC Uzina Mecanica Cugir SA subsidiary of CN ROMARM SA” known as “CUGIR” is producing small arms ammunition. They did before 1945 and shortly after with the hs “CMC” and for some reason they stopped in 1948 (to my observations). After the fall of communism and restructuration of the defense industry in the 1990’s “CUGIR” decided to start production of calibers below 12.7mm (which they made for decades) and entered into NATO calibers (5.56, 7.62 and 12.7x99).

I been wondering about their hs as we had seen only numerical codes of them before. Since the “SADU” factory (umsadu.ro) stopped using numerical codes in 2006 and is using “SADU” in hs since then I was curious to find out what “CUGIR” was using now. Till today I had no answer but luckily found a very blurry image of a 5.56x45 hs saying “5.56 01 CUGIR”.
Anybody out there who has clear images of “CUGIR” hs and in particular form other years and on other calibers?

Here the CUGIR website:
umcugir.ro/products.html


#2

EOD - according to their website, SADU makes the 9 x 18 mm Makarov cartridge. Have you ever seen one? Do you know the headstamp? Do you know when they began manufacture of it?

This is the first news I have (confirmed, not just anecdotal) that Romania ever made this caliber of ammunition. It has to be fairly recent when they started, but when?


#3

John, I wish I knew that myself. Unfortunately Romania is somewhat difficult to research and for the time being I do not have any information on the SADU 9x18.


#4

Hi,
They also have shotgun shells with their headstamps.
I have a 16 ga in my collection from them.
When it is interesting I can post a picture of it.

Regards rené


#5

Can anyone supply the meaning of the letters “SC” before a company name and “SA” after a compnay name in Romanian and also translated to English?
When I say meaning, I mean what is the word that each initial stands for. I do not need an explanation of the type of company each refers to.

Thank you.


#6

Hi John, the meaning and translation of “SC” is “Societatea Comercială” (Trading Company) and of “SA” is “Societate pe Actiuni” (Joint Stock Company). Regards, Fede.


#7

John, regarding the 9x18 made by Sadu, I don’t know when they started manufacture but it was mentioned by Liviu back in 2007, although he didn’t give any details of its headstamp. It is not included in literature published by RomArm before they opened a website in 2002 and I first noted mention of this caliber when Sadu opened their own in 2009. Sorry for not being more specific.

This is their current offering:


#8

Fede - as always, muchisimas gracias amigo mio. The picture showing both brass case and copper-washed steel case for the Makarov is interesting, as their current on-line catalog only shows the brass-cased version. Also, in another picture, the bullet jackets appear to be brass rather than gilding metal, as in the picture just posted. Well, that is not so important since no one seems to have a sample of this cartridge to actually take details from.


#9

Can anyone explain the relationship, or the difference, between the Romania Arms Industry representative ROMARM and ROMTEHNICA? They seem to be separate entities, but with some relationship. Both have been credited at one place or another as controlling the Romanian Arms companies like SADU and CUGIR. Two hours on the the net found nothing for me - lots of mentions of the two names but nothing definitive or even particularly helpful on the two.


#10

John, thanks to your mention of Romtehnica I found some lists of their export products downloaded years ago. In 2004 they listed: “9 x 18 mm cartridge with bimetal or brass case and steel core bullet – MAKAROV”, in 2007: “9 mm cartridges (9 x 17 mm, 9 x 18 mm, 9 x 19 mm, safety, blank, noise)”; and between 2008 and 2012: “9 mm cartridges (9 x 18 mm, 9 x 19 mm, safety)”. Their current list doesn’t inlcude any pistol cartridges.


#11

Fede - did it say which of the factory was making the ammo? Their name has come up both in association with Cugir, who seems to not have made any pistols calibers, and SADU, that still does.

I do not think until I understand the relationship between Romarms and Romtehnica that I will have a grasp of who made what in Romania beyond what is in the current catalogs of Cugir and SADU.

Could you provide me with links to those catalogs you mentioned? I would like to have printed copies of them.


#12

John, PM sent.


#13

John, from information available it seems that there is no appreciable difference in respect of what products they have to offer, as both companies promotes direct export sales of Romanian defence manufactured products; Romthenica is the solely importer of products for national defense, however. Both have state owned capitals but Romtehnica is represented by the Romanian Ministry of National Defence and Romarm by the Ministry of Economy and Commerce. Also, it seems that only Romtehnica will provide products from the national defense surplus stock.

As I said above, Romtehnica’s current ammunition surplus stock list doesn’t mention any pistol cartridges, but I just noted that their current export list includes: “7.65 x 17 mm; 9 x 18 mm MAKAROV; 9 x 19 mm PARABELLUM, SAFETY, BLANK, SUBSONIC, LUGER, FRANGIBLE”.


#14

Fede - that clarifies a lot, actually. La solita burocrazia, as they say in Italian. The same old bureaucracy - duplication in Government.

Romania has made the 7.65 x 17 mm round for a long time, for the Carpati pistol which was just about their standard “official” pistol. The 9 x 18 mm seems to be fairly new - perhaps as early as 2004 but cetainly, in my view anyway, not dating back to the communist era. I wish some would get imported. A little SADU ammo came in the country some time ago - some ball 9 mm Para and I think 7.62 x 39, but it was short lived and not any kind of real selection of what they load. With all these shortages of ammo in the US, importers are missing a bet, I think, with several European factories who would probably welcome orders.