Romanian headstamp collection

Hi guys
I’m Romanian and as a kid, back in the mid 1990’s I used to collect spent casings from an army firing range
I’m going to share them with you, hope there is interest in the subject - if yes, I’ll continue with 7,62 x39 and x54R, and others
Sorry for some of the images - autofocus doesn’t always work as advertised on my camera.

First up, the smallest ones: 7,65x17mm (32 ACP) used in the Carpati Model 1974 pistol, all brass.
I’ve got 79, 80, 83, 84, 85 and 89.
Also saw online pictures of headstamps with 80 over 7,65 (no 22 factory code like on mine) and 81 over 7,65
I would appreciate any additions you might have.

Next, 7,62x25 Tokarev, used in the TTC pistol, all brass.
1953 ones, both from Sadu (22) and Cugir (21), 1954 from Sadu and 1962 from Cugir
I saw online images of tins from 1982-83-84-85 from Sadu exported to the USA, and a 22 over 83 headstamp.
If you know of any others out there, let me know.

9x19 (brass) and 5,45x39 (steel) - now they are commonly used by the Romanian Army, back in the mid 90’s they were rare. I’ve also found 5,45 casings with 17 over 81 and 270 over 85 - most likely they imported 5,45 ammo from the USSR in the begining, until production in country got up to speed.
9x19

5,45x39

Hi Vic, welcome to the IAA. You have found some good headstamps, I hope you have some extras!
In 7.65 ACP I have 3 you do not show: 22 76 7.65, 81 7.65, and 82 7.65. If you have extras, I need 324 89 7.65.
In 7.62TT, I have 2 you don’t show: 22 RPR 55 and 21 RPR 63. I also have examples for all the 22 82-85 headstamps. For my collection, I very much need both 21 RPR 53 and 62.

Vic, great headstamp images of some undocumented variants. Thanks a lot!

Do you happen to know if there are any 7.65mm pistols in Romanian service today?

Hi Vic - Thanks for posting these. We are only beginning to understand what has been made in Romania over the last few years (aside from the old 7.9 x 57 Mauser rounds, which collectors sorted out some time ago).

I don’t collect dates, so I probably won’t add much. Due to my layout at home now, it is hard for me, while typing this reply, to match what I have against what you have posted, so I am listing all my pistol rounds of Romanian origin, and will let you, for your own purposes, sort out what has already been mention. I am including, since they are few and far between, older rounds I have as well (pre-1945):

7.65 mm Browning:

22 80 7.65
81 7.65
84 7.65

9 mm short (Scurt)

C M C 9

7.62 x 25 mm Tokarev

21 RPR 63
22 RPR 53
22 83
22 84
14S RAS 7.62x25 (Green lacquered steel case)(commercial “Red Army” brand.

9 mm Parabellum

C M C 9
C M C 9L (3 different bunters)
21 RPR 55 (small headstamp letters)
21 RPR 55 (larger headstamp letters)
93 UMC 9 X 19
323 93 (CWS case)
SADU 9 x 19 08 (large headstamp letters)
SADU 9 x 19 12 (smaller headstamp letters)

9 x 23 mm Steyr

P / 1940 / A / 9 / (Small headstamp letters)
P / 1943 / A / 9 / (Larger headstamp letters)

I, too, would be very interested in the “325” 9 mm Para headstamp and the 324 7.65 Browning Headstamp. I would be happy to buy them if extras are available, or trade for them.

John, there might be “new” Romanian 7.92x57 to sort out as they are being made again for the commercial market (Hot Shot).
One known hs is “SADU 8x57 13” but that might be pre “Hot Shot”.

Thanks EOD. No longer have to worry about that caliber though. Folks, on my original list on this thread I really screwed up one headstamp. EOD was kind enough to email me (we are friends for years) and question the headstamp. When I saw that I wrote “325 9s” for my CWS-case 9 mm Para round I was mortified. Write it off to poor proof-reading by a blind old fat man. It has been corrected to the proper “323 93” now on this thread.

I also noted that right below it I showed the Steyr Pistol Caliber, for the Model 1912 Romanian-Contract Steyr-Hahn Pistol, as 9 x 123 mm in the heading for those cartridges. Wow! I wouldn’t want to fire that one in a roughly 2-1/2 Lb. Pistol. What a powder capacity! Of course, the correct heading should have been “9 x 23 mm.”

Sorry about these boo boos folks. I used to be an accurate and fast typist.
Now I am a fast typist. Forget the accurate part :-( That mistake, too, has been corrected.

Thanks EOD.

John, actually I was less questioning it rather than I wished it to be all true as I really would have liked to see that “325 9s” hs.

Hi Vic, Thanks for sharing. Interesting. -Ger

Sorry guys, no extras available. Thank you for your contributions on headstamp dates.

EOD: In the last 4 decades or so, only one 7,65 firearm has been in service: the (in)famous Carpati Md 1974 pistol
It is no longer in Army service, but they still have it in the inventory, in depots.
Just this month Romtehnica published surplus ones for sale:
romtehnica.com.ro/offers-from-stock/
romtehnica.com.ro/wp-content … an-MoD.pdf

The vast majority of regular Policemen and Gendarms still use it, along with some private security companies (those who carry money for banks, fill up ATMs, etc.)
Rapid response teams (SWAT like), both in the Police and Gendarmerie use Glock 17

Continuing with 7.62x39 headstamps. All manufactured at Sadu (22).
First the brass ones:
1963,64,65,67,68 and 70 ; as you probably know RPR stands for Republica Populară Română - i.e. Romanian Popular Republic

7,62x39 steel cases. The ones from 84 and 88 are blanks, but the headstamp is identical to live rounds,
except for the lack of red sealant on the primer.
As you notice comparing with the above, in 1968-70 there was parallel production of steel and brass cases.

7,62x54R
The 1952 is brass, all others are copper washed steel.
1973, 74, 76, 77, 79, 80, 83, 84, 85 and I assume the last is 89 but curiously it is stamped at 12 o’clock.
If you turn it upside down, it’s 68, but than it would also have a factory code, no?

An oddity: 30-06 with stell green laquer case, Sadu manufacture from 1996.
Certainly not a military round, probably for hunting - any of these surfaced in USA or Europe?

And 14,5x114 The 87 one is steel with dark bronze lacquer, the 68 and 69 are brass.

Good topic. Thank you. I hope and 9x18 will be?

Hooke - The 9 x 18 Makarov cartridge from Romanian is already know with heastamps:

SADU 9x18 10
SADU 9x18 11

The box label that I have a picture of reads:

S.C. U.M. SADU S.A
Cartus 9 mm
Makarov
Lot L02/2011
16 buc.
necorosiv

The “S” in Cartus has a tail on it that I could not duplicate here.

Hooke, 9x18 is an uncommon caliber in Romania. It never was in Army service, only some policemen use Makarovs.
Before 1990, Securitatea had some Makarovs and Stechikins.

I only saw 9x18 cartridges once, some 15 years ago in a Policeman’s Makarov (he was friend of a friend)
The cartridges were copper washed steel entirely, and had the headstamp 82 at the bottom.
No idea if these were manufactured in Romania or not.

John Moss wanted to write “Cartuș” = cartridge

Hello Vic,

Do you perhaps have any headstamps of shotshells??
Or pictures of the cases? ( paper only )

regards rené

It would be of extreme interest to me to find out the exact heastamp on the “82” dated 9 mm Makarov ammo described as being used by the Romanian Securitate. We have had information of that agency’s use of 9 x 18 mm pistols, although conflicting information with one credible source saying the pistols were Makarovs, and another also fairly credible saying they were Hunfarian P-83s, for a number of years. I tend to believe the first source that says they were Makarov (PM).

One thing we know is that in 1988, the firm of Prvi Partizan of the former Yugoslavia supplied that Agency with steel-core ball ammunition, unusual for PP-YU who normally produced this cartridge with lead core only, as well as a green-tip tracer round.The primer seal on the ball round is purple instead of the normal reddish-orange color, and that may well be an identifier for the steel core. The headstamp on both types is PPU-88 9-M.

It was great to get further confirmation of the use of this caliber ammunition by the “Secu” (a slang term for the Securitate, whose official name was Ministerul Afacerilor Interne (Ministry of Internal Affairs) from Vic. Thanks, Vic. Many on the Forum know that all things Makarov are of intense interest to me.

By the way, I should have noted that on the box label, the initials “S.C. U.M.” stand for “Societate Comerciala Uzina Mecanica.” Once again, there is a letter with a symbol that I cannot reproduce here, so forgive the language transgression.

JohnMoss, the headstamp on those Mak cartridges was exactly as I described: only an “82” at 6 o’clock and nothing else.
The bullet looked like the regular FMJ. No idea if this ammo lot came from old Securitatea stocks or somewhere else.
Can’t remember any primer sealant being there - the primer was just brass color.No sealant at the neck either.

Societate Comercială Uzina Mecanică is the exact spelling.

polman,
Here are four 12 gauge shotgun paper cases that I have from the late 1980’s - early 1990’s.
The base is brass plated steel on all.
The MG on them stands for Metaloglobus in Bucharest - that was the Romanian manufacturer of these cartridges.