RPG-7 training cartridge (7.62x39mm)


#1

What can you tell me about a training cartridge for the RPG-7 that consists of a 7.62x39mm tracer cartridge and a 7.62x39mm blank cartridge connected by a metal collar that has a primer on the side? Are the cartridges modified in any way? Does the primer in the collar fire both cartridges or is there some sort of firing pin inside? has anyone seen one of these devices sectioned? Which countries made these?

AKMS


What is this thing?
#2

A good question for which I have found no answer so far.

I assume the primer in the side of the joint section is the only and the primer pockets are drilled out or even left as they were (empty).

Russia we can exclude since the systems they are using (PUS-7 for the RPG-7) are working with regular cartridges.

Unfortunately the rounds you mean are quite hard to find and there I wonder if somebody is willing to destroy his specimen to look for the (hopfully present) hs.

I still hope that some day an ammunition manual or box for these may show up so we can take our conclusions as for where they come from. Wish I had seen the shooting device for it.

Fede, where is Fede?


#3

AKMS & EOD, I have this sketch with details of the SCB-7 subcaliber device cartridge construction:

As far as I know this was a Czech development of 1978 which was soon replaced by the simplified model using standard 7.62x39 rounds. There are two variations: tracer and API. When fired, the flame generated by the blank ignites a secondary blank used to simulate weapon’s exhaust (a primerless 12 ga with a black powder igniter).



#4

Fede, thanks again (and as usual)!

We had images of this round shown here before and the subject was discussed without a real result.

The new part seems to be the Czechoslovak connection and the designation. though I wonder why I have it never seen being covered in the Czech or Slovak cartridge research bulletins.

At least I have a lead now where to ask first.


#5

I can tell you that there is no headstamp (on the tracer variation) and that I will be sectioning one in the coming months.

Paul


#6

Paul, do you mean on the case where “normal” cases would have the hs or do you refer to the complete round as depicted?


#7

Hi Alex,

I am referring to the normal headstamp position on a cartridge case, not markings on the complete device.

Paul

Edited to add this picture:


#8

Paul, great to see and also surprising that no hs is present since one would have thought that regular cases were used.
How comes we can look into this one here?
What is that material in the primer pockets?
Are the off centre holes factory made?


#9

Hi Alex,

Good questions for which I have no answers at this time. Also, this arrangement does not appear to correspond with the drawing that Fede shared - unless the ‘tube’ has been cleanly cut.

Paul


#10

The drawing that Fede posted is clearly not 100% accurate - the projectile in that drawing is certainly not seated like a normal projectile nor is it a standard shaped projectile. No fault of Fede, he is simply posting the image from another source.
My point is that considering the mistake with a simple detail like the projectile, maybe the internal construction shown in the drawing is way off the real thing.
I guess the sectioning will reveal all…


#11

The drawing is a typical hand made one as often used in “communist documents” (and I see those appearing in many US docs in recent years) since technical drawings were often classified to a level where even regular soldiers were not allowed to look at since all was secret. Also those making the scetches were (as we can see) not trained in doing so at all.

Paul, can you show us a side view of those components?


#12

Alex,

Here are a few new images. I haven’t had time to section one yet, but the central connector piece is of cheap pot-metal (like a zinc alloy) and is quite solid except for the flash hole connecting channel running from the primer to the bases of the cartridges (like a ‘T’ intersection).

Here are some of the components.




Here’s a complete one. The indexing lug is opposite the primer.


Paul


#13

Paul, just great! Thanks a lot for the new images. Lucky you having a complete round!
The remnants of the pot metal or zinc seem to be broken off and the surface which initially connected the case to the center piece with the primer looks rather small (maybe the reason it is breakable at that point).

Wish we could see the crates or tins for these to get the full details.


#14

photo of wax sealed box of 20 tomorrow


#15

You are killing me!


#16

Modi-Pac box was convenient as a scale model


#17

I know this topic is a few years old already, but I was wondering if anyone has the patent drawing to accompany this cartridge? I have been searching online, and have yet to find it. Maybe it is harder to find being a Czech patent?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Regards,
-Dave


#18

A picture of the device itself would be interesting too :)


#19

I am 99% sure, that this is not Czechoslovakian production, but Russian. The RPG-7 is primary Russian gun = training cartridge too. Tracer bullet hasn´t typical closed base with brass foil, what is at all CS handgun tracer bullets.


#20

THV, the problem here will be that the Russians have a whole series of subcaliber systems for infantry weapons including the RPG-7. None of the rounds used is the one in question here. Also never such a cartidge has shown up in Russia by now.
The system for the RPG-7 is the PUS-7 (PUS-7M) and both are firing regular 7.62x39 tracer rounds.

rwd-mb3.de/pages/pus7.htm