Ruby


#1

To stay with the subject.
Here is a loaded with Ruby

The loaded with part is printed above the Curtis’s & Harvey’s part.

regards rené


#2

from Australia?


#3

Hi Pete,

It says nothing about Australia on the case, but when I remember wellit did came from a friend from down under.

Never seen another one but this one, so I would be happy to see pictures of others.

Regards rené


#4

Hi René.

Ruby gunpowder was a brand of Smokeless powder introduced about 1898 (C&H Catalogue listing). The trade mark was registered Sept. 16, 1904 (from Arms and Explosives). It was a short lived brand, but I am not sure when it disappeared. Probably in the 1900-1914 period.

Cheers,
Will.


#5

Hi Will,

Thanks for the info.
This gives a good idea of why it is not seen very often.

Regards rené


#6

howdy rené
Probably not seen too often because this & a number of others you have shown which came from Australia were not sold or marketed in England but were only for sale in Australia.

as a suggestion, you separate those from your British & put them with the Australian shells, of however you keep them.


#7

Hi Pete,

This is excactly how I have them, australian seperated from the UK ones.

Regards rené


#8

[quote=“polman”]Hi Pete,

This is excactly how I have them, australian seperated from the UK ones.

Regards rené[/quote]

Rene/Pete/Will,

I would put them under Curtis & Harvey UK ;)

Nice topic btw Rene, this is another of those unanswered questions; Was it a cartridge name or just a powder name used on cartridges?

So straight in at a very interesting cartridge called the Ruby (not a loaded with)

Head Stamp

Side View 1

Side View 2

Over Shot Card

So, that is all there is on the case! no mention of Curtis & Harvey nor on the Head Stamp or on the OSC. To my knowledge it doesn’t seem to be a reload.

Any thoughts on this one?

Mike.


#9

Ok some more that are loaded with cases, same as yours Rene. I have about 7 variations, these range from Curtis and Harvey head stamps to Eley London and Nobel Glasgow, quite a few different colours and styles.

Curtis & Harvey HS

C&H Head Stamp

Side view

Eley London HS


Head Stamp

Side View

OSC

Nobel’s HS

Head Stamp

Side View

OSC (very nice card on the Nobel’s)

Eley London HS (Banded)

Head Stamp

Side View

OSC

Last one an unusual Grand Prix

Eley London HS

Head Stamp

Side View 1

Side View 2

OSC.

Mike.


#10

Copy of scans from a 1913 Curtis & Harvey catalogue from Jim Buchanan.

Loads.

Cartridge

Also a Ruby powder tin;

Also courtesy of Jim.


#11

Hi Mike,

Very nice!
As you say, that Grand Prix is a very unusual one to see.
Never seen any of these at all.
Also the Ruby one without any C&H or loaded with is great, I think as you, it will probably always be an unanswered one.

thanks for showing.
rené


#12

Hi Rene,

Have I convinced you to file them under Curtis & Harvey UK now :).

Do you want me to see if I have any swaps of these? I take it you are still at No 68?

Best regards,
Mike.


#13

Mike & rené
The reasoning behind my asking if Australian was that these shells & others mentioned before with the Nobel Glasgow headstamp seem to appear in Australia at a far greater number than anywhere else. Terry W. has got a whole slew of them. They seem to be relatively easily found in that part of the world. So even with the same ‘brand’ a different market. So perhaps why, not UK, but Australian.

Likely something we will never know, but do you have exact duplicates of those rené notes as coming from Australia? If so we can say that shell was marketed in both places, but if not…

A number of companies due to liability did something to a shell or cartridge to note it was for a certain market. Might have been case color, headstamp or even the brand. For example Winchesters 1901 line was NEVER sold loaded but only as a new primed or new empty, so if a gun blew up & the shells were at fault & it was a 1901, WRACo could easily claim it was not their fault.


#14

[quote=“PetedeCoux”]Mike & rené
The reasoning behind my asking if Australian was that these shells & others mentioned before with the Nobel Glasgow headstamp seem to appear in Australia at a far greater number than anywhere else. Terry W. has got a whole slew of them. They seem to be relatively easily found in that part of the world. So even with the same ‘brand’ a different market. So perhaps why, not UK, but Australian.

Likely something we will never know, but do you have exact duplicates of those rené notes as coming from Australia? If so we can say that shell was marketed in both places, but if not…

A number of companies due to liability did something to a shell or cartridge to note it was for a certain market. Might have been case color, headstamp or even the brand. For example Winchesters 1901 line was NEVER sold loaded but only as a new primed or new empty, so if a gun blew up & the shells were at fault & it was a 1901, WRACo could easily claim it was not their fault.[/quote]

Pete,

Look at the third one in the second post, that is the same cartridge as Rene’s. Apart from Rene’s is badly faded, fired and not in particularly good overall good condition (sorry Rene, but extremely fine if that is only one you have:)).
Also I was sat with Terry at the Midland Game Fair 2 or 3 years ago emptying loads of cartridges so that he could take them home with him (and by loads I mean LOADS) so him having them means nothing without knowing how and more to the point were they came from. Topwads pahhh.

BTW Pete, where are the smilies on this forum (or is it bring your own?)

Mike.


#15

Pete,

This will be another of those odd questions, the Ruby cartridge with the C & H head stamp (first one in the second post) who would you say made the case? (it only states “Made in Great Britain”, which we know is often a lie)
Nobel at Glasgow or could it have been Cogswell and Harrison at their Colnbrook factory? I admit the Cogswell style often had a flatted crown to the dome!
These were the only two English companies at that time using a “domed” cap (although we know that Joyce did use them for a while too) but was this because of their later connection to Nobel.

All of the above is based on the cartridge being produced around the 1900 to 1914 period give or take a few years.

Mike.


#16

Hi Mike
your 3rd one in the 2nd post is not quite like rené’s as his has a wound paper reinforcing showing just above the head.

Never the less, as you probably know about 1000 times more about British shells ten I so I will bow to your superior knowledge & admit you might (koff koff) be right!

See none of those silly thingy’s needed.

& you are very likely right.

As to who made that C&H case, I don’t know, wouldn’t even care to hazard a guess. sorry.


#17

[quote=“PetedeCoux”]Hi Mike
your 3rd one in the 2nd post is not quite like rené’s as his has a wound paper reinforcing showing just above the head.

.[/quote]

Hi Pete,

Good eye!!
BUT it is a plastic wrapper around the case to protect it from more damage than already.

BTW Mike no sorry about the poor quality, but I have have even worse once in the collection.

regards rené


#18

[quote] polman
BTW Mike no sorry about the poor quality, but I have have even worse once in the collection.

regards rené[/quote]

Hi Rene,

Yes me too I have a few terrible ones but when they are all you can get they will do till you find a better one, doesn’t matter one bit, a poor example is far better than no example.

Regards,
Mike.


#19

Now that you call attention to the plastic I see it !