Russian 7.62x39 sporting ammo boxes


#1

Here are two variations of Russian 7.62x39 sporting ammo boxes. Can anyone confirm whether or not these are just plain versions of the Wolf brand of ammunition boxes. Unfortunately, neither box contains any cartridges, so I don’t know what the headstamp is.


#2

It says literally “expanding deforming bullet for driving it into an animal”. Rather unusual choice of words.


#3

These are made by Barnaul, notice the wolf to be the target. Probably the Russian way to deal with competitors.

Vlad, the writing says:
“Projectile: expanding and deforming when hitting an animal’s body”

I wonder if it that implies that it does not deform on human bodies.


#4

EOD–Ah, but are we not animals as well???


#5

Alex, you are right, I was distracted by the very weird archaic looking script on this box, like Gutenberg printed this.


#6

This is the headstamp for a cartridge taken from a soft point version of the black and white box above.

NATO Dave


#7

Thanks for the translations and the maker - I had not considered Barnaul, and was not familiar with that rather complicated headstamp, which also is on the box.


#8

Watching people I definately have to agree with you!


#9

I’ll second NATODave’s headstamp, as I have a similar box with the soft point cartridges. I beleive the wolf on the box is simply coincidence and pre-dates the commercial “Wolf” brand.

AKMS


#10

AKMS, no way of predating since Wolf is a brand of TPZ (Tula). The wolf here is no brand logo!

Russian hunting cartridges often used the animal’s image on the cartridge boxes they were intended for. This was done over decades.

Here another Barnaul box for 7.62x51M as the Russians call it - no wolf there!:


#11

I did mean to imply that Barnaul used the wolf as a trademark, just that it was a coincidence that it was used before Tula.

Did Tula create the “Wolf” brand, or was it created by the US company that imports Tula and other manufacturers’ ammunition?

So, on Russian 7.62x39mm with the wolf on the box, does the wolf signify that the cartridge is suitable for varmints, vermin or small-medium sized game? How specific is the animal/cartridge relationship? Any other examples?

AKMS


#12

AKMS, I try to explain the opposite, Barnaul did not use the wolf as a trademark (if so the elk above would be a trademark too? No!). The wolf was just shown as a potential target (class of targets) to be engaged with these cartridges. Otherwise the wolf logo there would have had a copyright logo next to it as a registred trademark, this is only the case with the Tula wolf.

I am not sure about TPZ and their Wolf brand but it is traded as Wolf inside Russia as well with entirely Russian marked boxes.
A joint brand was/is TPZ-KOPP.
A new brand of TPZ is now “TULAMMO” and they started using the TPZ logo in head stamps what they have not done before.

Correct, the animal shown is giving the “class” of animals to be shot at. And yes, there are others also from Soviet times like:
.22lr with a turkey
8.2x66SR with a bear
7.62x51 with a deer
7.62x54R with a wolf (to confuse you totally now: it is from LVE Novosibirsk) - I wonder if the “class thing” fits here
12GA with a rabbit, also with a small deer (what ever that is in English)
16GA with a fox
I have also a 410 with a dog but here it is just an artists impression of the hunter’s companion I would say, would be sad to hunt doggies.


#13

Were there any hunting rifles chambered in 7.62x51 in the Soviet era?


#14

Falcon, yes but very few. They got some from Czechoslovakia and made their own ammo by backward engineering. This one was of course some sort of substitute since they did not have the specs at that time. After they got the details they made a “proper” 7.62x51 and designated it 7.62x51M to be able to tell it apart from the prior production. Weird but that’s what I was told.


#15

Do you have any examples of “reverse engineered” 7.62x51 rounds?


#16

Falcon, I can not say for sure since I have none such identified to 100%.

I have an empty box from USSR times where the caliber was given as “7.62x51” but I have no verified info as for the content. The cartridges which is attributed to this box is a SP projectile on a laquered steel case with the hs “7.62x51” on 6h position.

Also I know of a brass case with SP projectile and no hs (came from Russia) but there the info is even more vague and it may be that this is some Czechoslovak delivery. Note that the Czechoslovaks were the first to make a 7.62x51 (a military production by the way) in the old days of the Warsaw Pact. If someone knows better please correct me.

I just checked and found that some manucturers in Russia recently started to designate their cartridges only 7.62x51 without the “M” which was used for so long. Likely the danger to confuse them with those old ones is banned.

I need to say that I am not the expert for all the civilian Russian cartridges. So do not trust me or correct me.