Russian M1867 Karle Cartridge


#1

Anybody own/encounter one in person? I have only seen drawings, never an actual photo.


#2

Knowing how few “old” cartridges are preserved in Russia I wonder if there is even one that survived. It would be a miracle and I’d be really curious to see one too.


#3

IN the recent few years, a lot of cartridge examples of various calibres have surfaced (literally) from creek and river beds in Bulgaria, around the various Battle sites of the 1877-78 Russo-Turkish War (Plevna etc).

Several examples of .45 Turkish Peabody-Martini, Russian Berdan 1. Winchester .44 RF Turkish, and other shells have been found, in remarkably good condition (Lots of ammo was abandoned as the Turks were defeated).

It is possible that there were some Karle rounds in the finds…?
The Postings were on Gunboards about 6-12 months ago.

Regards,
Doc AV


#4

very doubtful paper cartridges would survive an extended period of time in the water.
The Russian campaign against Khiva in 1873 by Hugo Stumm mentions that many soldiers from the caucuses were armed with Karle rifles, so maybe there are a few in Uzbekistan or in some small place in the caucuses.
surprised to see such a short post coming from you DocAV ;-p


#5

Hello cyten, here is a picture:


#6

Fede - you are absolutely remarkable. If only one living person has even ever seen a cartridge, you will come up with a good picture of it!!! :-)

Thank you. Your participation here is a treasure!


#7

John, I agree, that is almost scary!


#8

This is one of those rare cartridges pictured only in just a few auctions from very advanced collectors, like J. Minne and M. Beutter. There will always be rare cartridges that will remain unphotographed hidden in someone’s collection.


#9

To exclude bordom here the experimental range of cartridges which lead to the one in question:


#10

awesome stuff! thank you guys!!!


#11

any chance someone has a pic or drawing of how these were packed?


#12

Dear Cyten,
Short Post due to being on Tour with Lady Gaga ( yes, she likes “guns” in her shows) around Australia. S O my access to Internet was limited in time and volume.
IN anycase, I confused the paper Karle Cartridge Needlfire system with the Krnka Metallic cartridge system (Used at Plevna)…Must be getting old.
Of course Karle cartridges would NOT survive long in water/sand, but in Uzbekistan (Central Asia) the prospects are better (Dry and cold).

Regards,
Doc AV…Now back at Home Base, with a whopper of a Cold/Flu/bronchitis etc…


#13

[quote=“DocAV”]Dear Cyten,
Short Post due to being on Tour with Lady Gaga ( yes, she likes “guns” in her shows) around Australia. S O my access to Internet was limited in time and volume.
IN anycase, I confused the paper Karle Cartridge Needlfire system with the Krnka Metallic cartridge system (Used at Plevna)…Must be getting old.
Of course Karle cartridges would NOT survive long in water/sand, but in Uzbekistan (Central Asia) the prospects are better (Dry and cold).

Regards,
Doc AV…Now back at Home Base, with a whopper of a Cold/Flu/bronchitis etc…[/quote]

I have picked up a Krnka cartridge in Bulgaria and seen many more peabody cartridges. I am in Tbilisi now and havent seen anything. Will be in the “stans” shortly so i will be on the lookout.
mustve been fun for you, hung out with her a few years ago when i was living in hollywood, she was nice before she hit it big, but now?


#14

Just a heads up, I was at the St. Petersburg Artillery museum last month and saw a few karle rifles with cartridges (full and sectioned) on display!
unfortunately, i lost all my photos


#15

For my records what is the caliber of this cartridge ?

Thanks


#16

6 lines which are bound to the inch as 10 lines are one inch.
Means this one here is cal. .60 what equals 15.24mm.

The projectile is the one from the muzzle loaders as with the Krnka cartridge as both were meant for converted muzzle loaders of the same type.