RWS drawings


#1

Does somebody have a list of RWS drawings with dates ?
thanks
JP


#2

[quote=“jeanpierre”]Does somebody have a list of RWS drawings with dates ?
thanks
JP[/quote]

Hum!
If i understand well nobody has RWS drawings.
(shotshells, ctges for riffles, ctges for handguns, aso)
JP


#3

JP, not correct.
I have many RWS drawings but not a list of these drawings with dates and none of shotshells.


#4

JP, I also have about 400 RWS drawings starting with M18 and ending in 1942 with M522, plus some extra from the SK series or unnumbered. You may want to post a list of what you have and we can check what it can be add.


#5

Thanks Fede

  1. Some drawings have only Nurnberg written at the bottom
    Some have Dynamit AG Nurnberg written at the bottom
    Some have RWS AG Nurnberg written at the bottom

Which period is related to each of these names ?

  1. Are they sorted by kind of ctges ?
    meaning from 0 to 100 they are primers for example
    100 to 200 they are shotshells
    200 to 300 rifles ctges
    and so on
    In this case N° 250 for example can be before N° 120

Or are they sorted by customer-non customer ?
In this case N° 250 for example can be before N° 220

Or are they listed by date ?
In this case N°250 is from after n° 100

  1. At the top Z. N° M (number) and at the top Z. N° (number) are different series or not ?

Thanks


#6

JP, I’m sure that this will not answer all the questions but it may help you. There are probably some mistakes because many drawings are hard to read.

It looks like drawing “M18” should be “M180”; this means that the earliest number I have is “M101” (drawing “Z.No. M100” was added later by DAG).

Drawings list:

  • Z.No. M101: shotshell (DAG).
  • M100 to M133: shotshells (RWS).
  • Z.No. M134 to Z.No. 140: shotshells (RWS). RWS drawings titled “Z.No.” started in 1926 with “Z.No. 134”.
  • M141 to M307: rifle cartridges (RWS) - A lot of RWS “Z.No.” and some DAG “Z.Nr.” drawings are inserted in between.
  • M309 to M338a: cattle killer and handgun cartridges - A few RWS “Z.No.” drawings are inserted in between.
  • M339 to M362: various - A few RWS “Z.No.” and one DAG “Z.Nr.” drawings are inserted in between.
  • Z.No. M363n to Z.No. M384: various (RWS).
  • Z.No. M386 to M394: shotshells (RWS).
  • Z.No. M395: latest RWS drawing dated April 15, 1931.
  • Z.N. 396: not specified.

DAG took over RWS on June 6, 1931.

  • Z.No. M397 to M522: various (DAG) - Earliest DAG drawing is “Z.No. 397” dated August 4, 1932 (by number) and “Z.No. 398” dated February 5, 1932 (by date). Maybe numbers were assigned chronologically but final dates were added later.

#7

Thanks Fede.
Vey interesting!

  1. "DAG took over RWS on June 6, 1931."
    This means N°100 was in use in 1931 ? Right ?

  2. " M339 to M362: various" Are shotshells inside ? if yes number please

  3. Z.No. M363n to Z.No. M384: various”. Are shotshells inside ? if yes number please

  4. Z.No. M397 to M522: various” - Are shotshells inside ? if yes number please
    [/quote]

  5. When a drawing is obsolete, do they cross it (or writte obsolete on it) ?

  6. I know only the shotshells drawings, I never asked for ctges drawings.
    Do the numbers 116, 117, 118 exist ?

Thanks
JP


#8

Hello JP,

  1. Yes, although I can’t read the date on this one, any DAG marked drawing should be post June 6, 1931. It could be a redrawn or maybe it was added later.
    2), 3) & 4) No shotshells.
  2. I only have three crossed out drawings (M211, M212 and Z.No. M212n). When a modified version of an old drawing was made it was designated with a letter “n” (probably indicating “neue”). When an old drawing was remade no letter was added; for example, there are two versions of “M278”, the original titled “Patronhülse G40/9,10” and a redrawn titled “Patronenhülse G 9,1 x 40” and dated February 4, 1959.
  3. Drawing numbers 116, 117 and 118 belong to some interesting cartridges:
  • Lancaster 18/40
  • Lancaster 16/75 with slanted rim
  • Lancaster 18/63 with slanted rim

#9

[quote=“Fede”]1) I only have three crossed out drawings (M211, M212 and Z.No. M212n). When a modified version of an old drawing was made it was designated with a letter “n” (probably indicating “neue”). When an old drawing was remade no letter was added; for example, there are two versions of “M278”, the original titled “Patronhülse G40/9,10” and a redrawn titled “Patronenhülse G 9,1 x 40” and dated February 4, 1959.

  1. Drawing numbers 116, 117 and 118 belong to some interesting cartridges:
  • Lancaster 18/40
  • Lancaster 16/75 with slanted rim
  • Lancaster 18/63 with slanted rim[/quote]

Thanks Fede

  1. There is something very strange.

Almost none of the shotshells are compliant with 1913 rules and even 1934 RWS standard (rim diameter or rim thickness too big to chamber into a gun, or too small and then floating in the chamber, aso)
Furthermore if I compare the dimensions with samples dimensions, they are quite different.

You say the last shotshells drawings are from before 1931.
If we even don’t take into consideration the 1913 standard, and if we refer only to the 1934 standard, these means other drawings from RWS (or Dynamit) must exist, these ones not been compliant.

Perhaps they were manufactured in another location ??
Or perhaps they have not surfaced ?
What do you think ??

  1. It is 118 or 118A ?

Thanks
JP


#10

Hello JP,

Many shotshell drawings on the list are special orders and it is surprising how many were made under Japanese specifications in the 1920’s and 1930.

By “1934 RWS standard” do you mean the table for paper cartridges published in “Schiesstechnisches Handbuch” 1934 edition? The only post-1931 drawing is DAG Z.No. M100 but the date on the bottom is impossible to read. The RWS M101-133 shotshell drawings date from early 1920’s to 1926.

It is also very strange if you compare drawing with commercial catalogs; brass cases just dissapear from time to time.

I think that there are probably hundreds of RWS drawings missing from the early era and also from c. 1940-41 and after the war.

  1. Sorry, drawing number looks like 118a.

Cheers,

Fede


#11

Hello!

[quote=“Fede”]Hello JP,

By “1934 RWS standard” do you mean the table for paper cartridges published in “Schiesstechnisches Handbuch” 1934 edition?
[color=#0000FF]Yes[/color]
It is also very strange if you compare drawing with commercial catalogs; brass cases just dissapear from time to time.
[color=#0000FF]no, they are in all the rWS catalogues I had access(1908, 11,12,13,21,22,24,26,27,32, 33, 35, 38)
From 1913 to 1921 I don’t know if they made catalogues
From 1931 they say they deliver slanted rims if straight rim is not specially ordered.
Despite the fact RWS decided to comply with 1914 Stuttgart convention, I don’t think they had time to start to modify their cases before 1920.
And they did modify them step by step, not changing all the dimensions at the same time.
Therefore these drawings (if we don’t consider special orders) were no more good for manufacturing after 1922 or 1924 and show dimensions of the 1905 (about) to 1919 range with first modifications done in 1920 before they changed to a stadard compliant with stuttgart.
all the rws ones (starting in 1926) are for special orders [/color]

I think that there are probably hundreds of RWS drawings missing from the early era (pre 1904) and also ([color=#0000FF]from 1926 to 1939[/color])c. 1940-41 and after the war.

  1. Sorry, drawing number looks like 118a.
    [color=#0000FF]I have this one.
    I don’t have 116 and 117[/color]

  2. [color=#0000FF]Another point.
    It is about the quotation of the drawings.
    they look like to be overquoted (at least from a french standard for drawing mechanics)
    I will explain that in another post[/color]
    Cheers,

Fede[/quote]