S&B 9x19mm Box With Mixed Headstamps


#1

Recent import from S&B, 2015 dated with and without NATO “⨁”.

Separate safety note (printed front and back) inside the box:

Contrary to what the box label says the case side walls are NOT stamped with the cartridge designation in black ink.

Brian


#2

No ink marking is necessary here, because the caliber designation “9 x 19” is already present in the headstamp. The label says only “marked 9 x 19”, not the type of marking.

Normally, on military cartridges (at least those I saw on Bundeswehr ranges) you find either the NATO symbol OR the caliber but not both at the same time. If only the NATO symbol is present, the CIP caliber (CIP allowed 9 x 19 as a valid alternative for 9 mm Luger) has to be added for commercial sale.


#3

Yes, what is on the headstamps seems to be the only requirement. I don’t read Czech, but the French, German, and English parts don’t ask for any special labels or markings. I believe only Germany requires cartridges to be “stamped with the cartridge designation in black ink”.


#4

Brian, interesting box, thanks for posting. Like other variations discussed before on this forum, this one was also imported into the US by Magtech.

Jochem, you are right, but Brian mentions the lack of case markings because some of the previously reported boxes with this same label contain cartridges that are ink marked “9X19 S&B” but are also headstamped “9x19”, which doesn’t seem to make any sense.

Regards,

Fede


#5

For some odd reason in recent postings always “Germany” is listed for this regulation of full caliber and manufacturer marking. As with the EU and many other threaties and agreemenst there is no Germany any more (dreams come true).
It is all EU and CIP and what so ever and applies to all signatories.


#6

Jonnyc, I am afraid you are not quite right.
Germany does not require any black ink. CIP requires the cartridges to be >permamently marked< with the caliber. In case the headstamp does not show the caliber in a CIP-compatible way (9x19 in this example), some other permament marking has to be applied. It turns out, the cheapest way is to use the same machines that spray ink markings on beer cans and the like. I was once told by Oerlikon people they had invented this process.

The box shown is from a lot accepted by the Prague proof house as complying to CIP rules (mostly pressure and dimensions). You can see its seal (well worn) at the top right of the label. It was much better visible in the other thread we had, showing this type of box.

Because this ammunition was accepted by a CIP member, it also complies to German law and could be sold commercially in Germany without any problem “as is”.


#7

Then I am probably incorrect, but it seems that every time I get or see a round with black side printing it did come out of ‘The Country That Used To Be Called Germany’.
A small nod to Alex!


#8

[quote=“Fede”]Brian, interesting box, thanks for posting. Like other variations discussed before on this forum, this one was also imported into the US by Magtech.

Jochem, you are right, but Brian mentions the lack of case markings because some of the previously reported boxes with this same label contain cartridges that are ink marked “9X19 S&B” but are also headstamped “9x19”, which doesn’t seem to make any sense.

Regards,

Fede[/quote]

As Fede clearly states and I did NOT clearly state in my posting, other S&B “white” boxes were discussed before ( viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15656&hilit=Saudi&start=0 ) and like the box shown here all share the same type of sticker label. And the labels share the same line " THE CARTRIDGES MARKED 9X19 S&B ". The 9x19mm cartridges shown in the previous post are stamped on the side of the casing while the cartridges contained in the box in this thread are not stamped on the side of the casing.

EOD & JPeelen in the previous thread and in this thread have explained the reason for the case sidewall marking and I was reminded that the case sidewall stamping is not required if the caliber designation is present in the headstamp. So this simply may be a situation where S&B is using a generic label that meets the current bureaucratic requirements and did not need to stamp the case sidewall because the caliber designation is included in the headstamp.

Thanks to everyone for their input on the subject.

Brian


#9

Hello all,

the difference between the first mentioned packages and this on here are, that this later ones contain S&B as the maker AND the caliber in hs, so no need for sidestamps…and boxes for export maybe where still plenty in house, which could used up…

The other ones from the first post, had either the S&B (maker initials) missing -it has shown only MIC !!, or in the second boxes the S&B was there, but the caliber was missing (it shows only the maker and than PS xxxxxlot number)…Therefore that ones had to be stamped on the side with the Makers sign and caliber. by CIP Rulings MAKER (or registered Sign!!) plus caliber had to be present in the headstamp, not only the caliber…

We had that problem, that we had polish cartridges (new made ones), but by error stamped by the maker with their military makers sign (21)…but with the caliber .223…
To avoid a lot of work we registerd the makers military sign (21), as a trademark and we saved trough that, a lot of money for not stamping the Name (Mesko) on the sides. The registering costs only 250€, stamping 400000 rounds would be much more expensive…

Hope that helps…

Forensic


#10

That was a smart move. Congratulations.