S&B Schonebeck

Need help to date these S & B Schonebeck 6.35Br boxes?

  1. Inoxidable Oldicht over label. S B on Headstamp on box
    PK box code
    empty box
    S&B Schonebeck a1 S&B Schonebeck a 2 S&B Schonebeck a 3 S&B Schonebeck a 4 S&B Schonebeck a 5 S&B Schonebeck a 6

  2. Oeldicht stamped on front of box. S B on headstamp on box
    OYKI5,6IX stamped on back of box
    B1C1IV139 box code
    S B headstamp, Red flat pr, cncs, Red cms
    S&B Schonebeck b
    S&B Schonebeck b2 S&BS&B Schonebeck bb|468x318Schonebeck b3
    S&B Schonebeck b4
    S&B Schonebeck bb

  3. Oeldicht as part of front label. SB 6,35 on headstamp on box
    SCmpv box code
    SB 6.35 headstamp, Red RWS.Geco pr. cncs Red cms
    S&B Schonebeck c
    S&B Schonebeck c1 S&B Schonebeck c2 S&B Schonebeck c3

3 Likes

The earliest mention of “oeldicht” seen by me was in a late 1934 issue of “Deutsche Jagd”, which refered to a new RWS catalogue of pistol ammunition.
Therefore, the cartridges you show should at the earliest be from the second half of the 1930s.
S&B Schönebeck had been owned by Steyr of Austria and then taken over by Fritz Mandl of Hirtenberger. When the Nazis came to power in Germany, Rheinmetall and Dynamit AG became the new owners. While doubtless a case of expropriation, it differed from the usual, because German authorities harshly criticised Rheinmetall for paying way too much to Mandl and he remained on friendly terms with Rheinmetall after 1945.

The RWS code during this period is Lettter-Number-Number-Letter. I initially thought Box #2 may use this code (B1C) except RWS codes all have two numbers betweem 41 and 71. Nothing else on this box fits an RWS code. The “OY” could be a Geco code. “O” is 1934 according to what I believe to be the Geco codes.The months codes are not known.

Box #1 with code PK would be 1934, and the PK code shows up on a Geco box of 38 Auto with an Astra label which dates from about this time.

Box #3 has code “SC” . The “mpv” suffix is relatively common on RWS boxes made by Geco, but the meaning is unknown to me. S would be 1937.

Both K and C are on the tentative list of month codes (though what month the codes represent is unknown. Y is not on the list, but there are other letters in this second position on the Geco code that are not on the list so the list could have changed over time.

These dates make sense since “Oeldicht” Is stamped on Box #2 indicating use of a box printed before about 1934 but used for the early Oeldicht cartridges. The other two boxes have Oeldicht printed on the label which would make sense for post 1934 boxes. It is interested that only one box has SINOXID printed on it since this primer was introduced in 1928.

Remember that during this period, all production of “RWS” autopistol cartridges was actually done by Geco regardless of the headstamp or box label.

This is my best guess based on the RWS and Geco boxes I have documented.

Cheers,
Lew

Would the RWS and Geco codes apply to Sellier & Bellot Shönebeck ammunition as well? I ask this realizing that during the 1930s, they were all under the Dynamit A.-G. “umbrella.”

John Moss

John,
The agreement between RWS and Geco that Geco would make autopistol ammunition for both was reached in 1927 according to the documentation I have seen. DAG took over both firms in 1931. Geco codes appear on all the the RWS boxes I have documented during the 1930s. I have documented 1921 and 1922 Geco boxs which uses the Geco letter code followed by a two digit day, but they appear to have dropped the day from the code before or when they reached the 1927 agreement.

I have documented an RWS box dated April 1928 which still uses the RWS code with the 2 numbers for the day between the letter codes for year and month-a different format from the Geco code used before the agreement. There are a set of 50 round boxes that are almost certainly RWS made since the rounds are all headstamped dnf 1942 to 1944 that use the RWS code format. All RWS commercial boxes from the 1930s that I have documented use the Geco box code. Since SB Shonebeck was part of DAG during this time it makes sense that their autopistol ammunition would be made by Geco where all the rest of the DAG autopistol ammunition was made. I can’t imagine why DAG would have the SB-S autopistol ammunition made somewhere else. Perhaps a box will show up that proves me wrong!

Thanks for the question John. It is a point that needed answering.

I would greatly appreciate anybody who has RWS, Geco or SB-S boxes with a code, or any other German boxes from 1900 through 1945 with a similar code, to post the images of the box and code on this topic or send the to me by PM or email. I am interested in boxes with a code to in the formats Letter-Letter (like PK) or Letter-Number-Number-Letter (like M52U) or Letter-Letter-Number-Number (like AE31). Note that these codes could be buried in a longer code like in Box #2 bove (i.e. OY K16,61X).

Cheers,
Lew