Saboted Cartridges


#1

Show us your unusual saboted cartridges. I’ll start.

A 25 Krag Improved with a paper or cardboard hand-made sabot. Sabot is varnished or shellacked. A poor shooters way to get himself one of the popular 25 Krag cartridges without having to get a whole new barrel.

Headstamp is SUPER-X 30 USA

Ray


#2

I think this might fit this thread…

One of the oddities


#3

These 50 BMG reloads were found at a gun show a couple of years ago - it’s scary what people get up to in their spare time!

I’d like to see these in use - then again perhaps not!

Dave


#4

Those are AWESOME!!! I like the 10mm, very cool.


#5

The January 2006 CARTRIDGE OF THE MONTH, the sectioned 50 cal flechette is a really nice saboted cartridge :-)

Jason


#6

Do a Forum search on this thread (30 Nato SLAP and accelerator) to see a couple entries regarding the odd color sabots that have shown up on what I call “gun show rounds”

Pepper

I don’t think “us Forum users” do enough searches of the previous back data…as there is a wealth of good stuff “back there”…(but of course one would need to know what to search for !)


#7

Here is an unusual British experimental flechette load. It is loaded in a 7mm High Velocity case headstamped RG 60 (+). Since the 7mm HV project was finished by 1953 quite why it was decided to use this calibre and then make new cases in 1960 is a mystery.

As the round came to me as unloaded components i am not sure how deep it should be seated. I have shown it compared to a regular 7mmHV with the S12 bullet. The flechette is held in a four segmented sabot with a pusher wad about 5mm thick below.

Regards
TonyE


#8

Just curious, are most of these smaller caliber saboted cartridges designed for AP purposes or are their other benefits to them, hunting, flesh penetration, long distance accuracy target shooting??? Tony, the one you posted is really wild.

Jason


#9

Jason, you’ll like this one:

This is a British 30mm RARDEN experimental APDS round, I know it is an experimental as it has no headstamp. The main projectile body is white plastic, the driving band and front sabot are black plastic. The only markings are on the primer. They read “284 L17A1 CY18/78”. The projectile is crimped in the case, this rounds looks live apart from that the primer unscrews and reveals the case to be empty, and the primer cap itself is actually a turned brass replica. I know the penetrator is there as the proj is slightly magnetic. I found this at a flea market in the UK for


#10

jason

There are two purposes for the saboted cartridges. Military & civilian.

The civilian cartridges such as the Remington Accelerators and those hand loaded by shooters are to allow the use of smaller caliber bullets at higher velocities in traditional big game hunting rifles for things such as long distance varmint hunting. Unfortunately, they failed in the market place because they were not sufficiently accurate.

Saboted bullets used in muzzle loaders are intended to allow the use of jacketed, high ballistic coefficient, higher velocity bullets. Since accuracy is not as big a requirement as it is in cartridge rifles, they have been very successful. The same is true for saboted shotgun slugs.

Military (and LE) applications, on the other hand, are quite different. And I see that it didn’t take long for this thread to gravitate in that direction with photos of tanks and artillery. ;) ;)

Ray


#11

Here’s one I have in the .500 Phantom series, shown with a .308 on the left. The saboted round has a .308 AP bullet.


#12


#13

[quote=“Ray Meketa”]jason

Saboted bullets used in muzzle loaders are …
Since accuracy is not as big a requirement as it is in cartridge rifles, they have been very successful. .

Ray[/quote]

Hi Ray,
I disagree with you about the muzzle loading guns non accuracy.
They are a lot more accurate than guns using ctges.

Try to compete at 200 or 300 meters (and further) with a very good 30 Nato rifle (no scope and regular military or commercial bullet) against a black powder muzzle loading gun shooting lead bullet.
You will be surprised.

And it is normal because of the design.

  1. Inflammation of the powder is better
  2. when you load it, you force the lead bullet from the muzzle to the rear part of the gun. Doing that you have just before firing the gun a bullet which is excatly calibrated to the grooves of the barrel
  3. You have not the problems of the bullet leaving the case, entering the cone, and taking abruptly the grooves.
  4. very often, on the good quality old rifles the sight are better than on a modern military rifle

jp


#14

Falcon - You are so right, that is up my alley and a beauty!

Ray - Thanks for explaining this to me. Really facinating and I was not aware of these smaller rounds for hunting, black powder and civilian use until now. Amazed by the variety.

Some of the ones posted are just incredible! Love those Russian ones.


#15

Here some sabotted cartridges out of my collection.

left to right:
30-06 helmet test from South Afrika
.308 helmet test from South Afrika
7,62 x 39 sabotted bullet .223
.223 antenna erection ???
.357/ cal .32 Wiersma

Regards,

Richard


#16

[quote=“jean-pierre”]. . . I disagree with you about the muzzle loading guns non accuracy. They are a lot more accurate than guns using ctges.
Try to compete at 200 or 300 meters (and further) . . . jp[/quote]

JP

I don’t want to get into a pi$$ing match about shooting because I’d rather talk about cartridges.

But, I’ll say this and then quit.

I have been competing in all shooting disciplines for more than 50 years. I do a lot of shooting at distances well beyond 200 or 300 meters. I currently shoot mostly long range Benchrest which is 600 and 1000 yards.

There are muzzle loading rifles that are very accurate, I won’t deny that. But the accuracy of the best of them cannot even come close to a tuned center-fire cartridge rifle.

Shooters are very fickle. They are loyal to no one thing or person. They want only what shoots the best. If a muzzle loader, or any kind of black powder rifle is what will win, that is what they would use. But they don’t.

JMHO

Ray


#17

While nerding on the internet, I found this interesting 45 caliber AP round. I think this may qualify as a saboted round, but not 100% sure to be honest. I just thought it was pretty wild.

Jason


#18

[quote=“Ray Meketa”]
I currently shoot mostly long range Benchrest which is 600 and 1000 yards.

There are muzzle loading rifles that are very accurate, I won’t deny that. But the accuracy of the best of them cannot even come close to a tuned center-fire cartridge rifle.

Ray[/quote]

Hey Ray,

I was not talking about tuned ctges in a bench rest rifle.

I have said: “very good 30 Nato (or 7.92 or 30-06) rifle with no scope and regular military or commercial bullet”

jp


#19

Doubtful Rays


#20

JP

The maximum acceptable accuracy standard for the M59 or M80 7.62x51 NATO is a 5" mean radius at 600 yards. Even the old Cal 30 M2 standard was 7.5". I don’t think you can show me a muzzle loading rifle that will equal or beat that.

I don’t want to argue shooting. You can have the last word.

Ray