Sale and posting of sectioned rounds


#1

I am not sure if this has been discussed before but can anyone clarify the legal side of buying/selling/posting and ownership of a sectioned round. Is it the same as a live round for instance it is the same law requirements to own Tracer/AP/API rounds once they have been sectioned.

thanks
Richard.


#2

Once it is sectioned, it is no longer “ammunition”, and is the same as a dummy or inert drill rd. But that doesn’t mean that places like Washington D.C., the U.S. Post Office, U.S. Customs, California, or airlines wont take issue with it for whatever reason.


#3

This is actually a bigger question. RichT is marked as a UK member, and as such is probably under very different rules.


#4

Yes I am in the UK but I am attending the ECRA meeting in Germany this month and I have seen some sectioned rounds for sale on the internet but they are in the US so I am trying to find out the rules in general and for each country

thanks
Richard.


#5

The last time I mailed a small pack of old empty cases to the UK - it disappeared into the æther of UK postal / customs… so anything is possible, and I would presume enforcement to be highly discretionary and/or inconsistent. Best bet is to see what the experience of other UK collectors has been, to determine what the norm is, and what any concerns or precautions should be.


#6

Richard, not sure if you’re a member there, but ask also on BOCN. You will probably get a broader UK/Euro-centric answer there.


#7

Under UPU (Union Postale Universelle) to which nearly the whole world adheres, NO explosive matter can be sent in the Mails. ( similarly ICAO, the Airlines Org.).

There are specific rules for small quantities on Aircraft ( accompanying a Passenger)

So, a sectioned Cartridge can not have any Priming Compound or Powder in it, even if sealed in “plastic/synthethic” Bonding Material, as we usually see in sectioned cartridges ( also no Trace, HE or Incendiary Mixes in the Proj.)

Also, we cannot allow for the Ignorance and Stupidity of Bureaucrats.

Doc AV

Correction: Universal Postal Union: Anyway you name it, it is a world-wide Postal Union.


#8

Many thanks for all the replys, I will stick to face to face buying at the shows

thanks again
Richard.


#9

That will probably save you a lot of frustration an money.


#10

There is no status in law for “inert” where ammunition is concerned in the UK. Thats any sort of inert ammunition not just section 5 ammunition. At the moment no defined exemption is given, so its firmly in the grey area at the moment.
Most people would think its not worth the risk of becoming the next Mick Shepherd.


#11

The problem was also found here in France, during Armament and Defense exhibitions, like Eurosatory… As complete rounds are most of time illegal, this is not the case for sectionned items.

In several cases, I observed interesting solutions :

-On medium and biger caliber specs, the primer compound was replaced by a kind of plastic resin, somehow similar to the brands used in dental prosthesis labs, with a color added “ad-hoc”, as the usual “pink” shade used for dentures cannot, of course, be retained… In Dental products firms, this resin can be obtained (by professionals_you have to be one of them, or tohave a Dental Surgeon as a friend!) in uncolored condition. It is is quite easy to work(powder monomer+liquid monomer) and polish. Just be careful when mixing it, as the polymerisation reaction is thermoforic, up to # 60°C.

-This system was also retained for preparing projectile sections, where the explosives parts had been cautiously removed and replaced by diverse plastic compounds of various colors had been used…

-For the propellant, it had been of course removed, and replaced by…“couscous” or “Bulgur”, a kind of cereal, glued in place then sprayed in grey or bright black !!! I also noted on big artillery rounds, a similar effect obtained with cut spaghetti pasta, for their tubular shape !!!

Even if I don’t collect anymore live and complete ammunition to-day, only pictures, books and documentation, I still kept my sectionned rounds collection, which is interesting, beautiful to look at, and …completely inert, and so, legal…(Can tell you that my wife is quite happy now!).

So I still own a very neat specimen of 30 mm HS so-sectionned and prepared… quite a nice item indeed… I also have several sections as advertising items, received from Oerlikon Contraves… very cute! or some ones from the former Manurhin-Cusset.

These sectionned rounds are in most of the civilsed world, considered as non-ammunition

Now the question is how to get the stupid and terrified bureaucrats understand that…I am afraid it can be only a dream, most of the time…! Nobody can ask them to behave like Einstein to work in a Postal Administration…

Phil