Shamrock Logo on Head Stamp

Does anybody know a user of the head stamp, The only one I have listed is Buck & Co. of St. Andrews Hill, London.

and for some reason I am not 100% convinced!

Thanks.

Edit… Yes I have seen the small raised “P” on the head but do not add this as significant.

Hi mike

No help on the ID.
But my 16 ga is same as yours, also with raised p.
The 12 ga is slightly different.


Sorry for the bad pictures

Thanks Rene,

Buck & Co. is the only registered user of that logo on a head stamp that I know of in GB.

This is the top wad on the 12 ga.

Regards René

Hi René,

I can make out the 5 SS in the Shamrock shape and I can make out the Shamrock word in the upper quadrant, but what does it say in the lower quadrant please.

Thanks,
Mike.

Mike, this headstamp was used by Frank Dyke & Co., London.

Regards,

Fede

Hi mike,
Bottom reads cartridge!

Hi Fede,

Thanks for the reply, not often I question you but are you sure the “head stamp” was used by Frank Dyke?
I know that Frank sold a cartridge brand called the Shamrock, primarily on German made cases and of all bore sizes, this supply of course ceased with the onset of WW2 and Eley-Kynoch, Greenwood and Batley were later used.

Below some of the various sizes and colours;



Special 12 - 12 Smokeless Frank Dyke Shamrock Head Stamp


12 bores

16 Bore

20 Bore

Gastight 410 F Dyke Shamrock 410-Short 2 Inch Head Stamp
410
.
.
Cooppal also supplied 410 cartridges with the Shamrock brand name, probably post WW2 looking at the case and primer.

Cooppal Powder 410 Shamrock Head Stamp
.
Eley-Kynoch 12 ICI 12 The Shamrock Side View 2
Eley-Kynoch 12 ICI 12 The Shamrock Head Stamp

Smokeless 12 - 12 Made In England F Dyke The Shamrock Head Stamp

Now we all know that he was renown for NOT putting his name on cartridges he loaded for himself and for others, which is a great shame as he was probably the biggest second tier supplier of cartridges in GB and there is a lot we do not know about him all of his premises and records were lost to bombing in the second world war.

Fede, do you have any record of that head stamp belonging to Frank other than the association of the trade mark “Shamrock”, sorry but I just have my doubts.

Regards,
Mike.

@ArmourerJim
Jim, do you have anything that relates to this please?

Cheers,
Mike.

Thanks René,

I just could not read that.

Mike.

Hi Mike and Fede.

I have a Frank Dyke billhead which shows the 3 leaf clover. Also he had Floberts made with this headstamp. These were made by SFM for Frank Dyke and some of the tins have his name on the front. And no, I don’t have pictures of the Flobert tins, but I suspect Jim might have a photo or two in his photo archive.

Cheers,
Will.

Hi Will,

Yeah, I have loads of Frank Dyke bits that show and reference the Shamrock. I thought on Florbert cases too but I am horribly behind with photographing them keeping up with normal cartridges this year has been a challenge (but a nice one), only a few days left of 2019 and I am still adding, cant be bad.
I have a few tins but none have a Shamrock head stamp, they were either plain heads or a G that I could find pictures of.

Shamrock No 1 x 100 tin open view

But I am sure you are right

Looking at Frank’s Trade Marke for 1938 you can see that the centre vein of the petals of the leaf are effectively straight.
Frank Dyke Shamrock Trade Mark in 1938

as are the pictures on every cartridge BUT this is not so on the head stamp. The only support I have for this is from Ken Rutterford second book (which I do agree with) but I can neither prove nor disprove him.

Thanks for the thoughts Will…

Regards,
Mike.

Mike,
Yes F. Dyke did use a Shamrock for a trademark See attached pic.
But it did not look exactly like your headstamp and I have never seen a Frank Dyke marked shell with that type of Shamrock.
So I dont know !!!
Jim

Guys,

And another Frank Dyke shotshell add, sadly NOT showing a clear headstamp.

Jim

Mike,
attached cut from my ammo database re Shamrock.
There were several different changes of ownership and their ammo was made abroad in Europe, so could the difference in the shamrock drawing just be “artistic licence” by a foreign supplier ??
Jim

Mike, I don’t know the exact timeframe, but this headstamp style is found several ads from the early 20’s to the 1940’s. Below you can see a nice ad that you can find online at the Grace’s Guide website.

Regards,

Fede

Jim,

I looked for this picture, this is from the Frank Dyke sample box of the mid 30’s. The cartridge heads just have Special and 12 on them no logo.

Mike.

Jim,

What I note from the data base notes, is you list Buck & Co. first as the user of the “Shamrock” then it clicked you probably have them in alphabetical order rather than date order when I saw WA&AT Co. last in your list and they are the oldest firm there I think.
I can also add Arthur Punter of Basingstoke (probably during the J.M. Emberton ownership) sold a Shamrock cartridges which was undoubtedly an over printed Frank Dyke case, Also Mallinsons of Great Driffield did a Shamrock brand cartridge too, this I doubt was a Frank Dyke case.

Mike.

@ArmourerJim, @Fede, @polman, @powdertin,
I can go some way with draughtsman’s license and all that good stuff but what you normally find with that is the actual is simpler than the physical, yet here we have the reverse.

This makes me more inquisitive as to who and why and when!

I personally think the original case I showed is not a Frank Dyke case but have no proof of this.

Out of interest, the addresses of Buck & Co. & WA&AT Co. are almost next door to each other and I wonder what the connection may/could be.

Thank you all for your help and input.

Regards,
Mike.

For what it’s worth here’s a clover headstamp on a 6mm Flobert Ball cartridge I have it listed as manufactured by SFM for Frank Dyke & Co. London, England.

Paul

Hi Mike.

If it’s any help, the billhead I have has Frank Dyke & Co. address as 10 Union Street, London Bridge, Aug 16th 1917. The Shamrock trade Mark is on the right side of the top with the stem of the 3 lead shamrock pointing left. On the floberts in my collection, I have the stem facing in both directions. When my assistant is back from vacation, I will have her scan it and send it to you. My computer is cranky and doesn’t let me scan right now.

Cheers,

Will.