Sharps Centerfire Case Types


#1

Well, I guess we have had all the input on the Sharps Makers and the Non-Centerfire Sharps cartridges. I thank everyone who contributed.

Now for the big one, The Centerfire Case Types. We’ll get to the synonymous names and individual loading by the various companies later. Right now I’m just interested in additions to the basic case types.

You will see on many of the case types two listings as follows:

.44-90 SHARPS ONLY, NECKED (2 1/4" CASE)

.44-90 SHARPS and REMINGTON, NECKED (2 1/4" CASE)

I believe these are different. For one thing, they are both listed as such in the same U.M.C. catalogs for a number of years. Plus, at least for the .44-90, Necked (2 7/16 case) Datig in “Cartridges for Collectors” Vol. II, Page 133 states that the Sharps Only has a rim diameter of 0.620 while the Sharps & Remington has a rim diameter of 0.636 and that they are NOT interchangeable.

I would appreciate measurements if anybody has rounds that came out of a box marked one way or the other.

For the most part, the following list was compiled from the U.M.C. catalogs, but some are from other sources.

[color=red]SHARPS CHECKLIST
OF ALL KNOWN CASE TYPES

[/color]
[color=red]CENTERFIRE SHARPS
[/color]
[color=blue].40 CALIBER
[/color]
.40 CALIBER GALLERY, STRAIGHT (2 1/2" STEEL CASE)

.40-45 SHARPS and REMINGTON, STRAIGHT (1 7/8" CASE)

.40-50 SHARPS ONLY, NECKED (1 11/16" CASE)

.40-50 SHARPS and REMINGTON, NECKED (1 11/16" CASE)

.40-50 SHARPS, STRAIGHT (1 7/8" CASE)

.40-50 SHARPS & REMINGTON STRAIGHT (1 7/8" CASE)

.40-65 SHARPS, STRAIGHT (2 7/16" CASE)

.40-65 SHARPS and REMINGTON, STRAIGHT (2 1/2" CASE)

.40-65 SHARPS, STRAIGHT (2 7/8" CASE)

.40-70 SHARPS ONLY, NECKED (2 1/4" CASE)

.40-70 SHARPS and REMINGTON, NECKED (2 1/4" CASE)

.40-70 SHARPS STRAIGHT (2 1/2" CASE)

.40-70 SHARPS & REMINGTON STRAIGHT (2 1/2" CASE)

.40-90 SHARPS ONLY, NECKED (2 5/8" CASE)

.40-90 SHARPS and REMINGTON, NECKED (2 5/8" CASE)

.40-90 SHARPS ONLY, STRAIGHT (3 1/4" CASE)

.40-90 SHARPS & REMINGTON, STRAIGHT (3 1/4" CASE)

[color=blue].44 CALIBER
[/color]
.44-60 SHARPS and REMINGTON, NECKED (1 9/10" CASE)

.44-75 SHARPS (2 1/4" CASE)

.44-77 SHARPS, NECKED (2 1/4" CASE)

.44-90 SHARPS ONLY, NECKED (2 1/4" CASE)

.44-90 SHARPS and REMINGTON, NECKED (2 1/4" CASE)

.44-90 SHARPS and REMINGTON, NECKED (2 7/16" CASE)

.44-90 SHARPS ONLY, NECKED (2 5/8" CASE)

.44-90 SHARPS and REMINGTON, NECKED (2 5/8" CASE)

.44-95 SHARP’S SPECIAL (LENGTH UNKNOWN) (2 5/8" ??)

.44-100 SHARPS ONLY, NECKED (2 5/8" CASE)

.44-105 SHARPS ONLY, NECKED (2 5/8" CASE)

.44-105 SHARPS and REMINGTON, NECKED (2 7/16" CASE)

.44-105 SHARPS and REMINGTON SPECIAL, NECKED (2 7/16" CASE)

.44-105 SHARPS and REMINGTON SPECIAL, NECKED (2 5/8" CASE)

[color=blue].45 CALIBER
[/color]
.45 CALIBER GALLERY, STRAIGHT (2 1/10" STEEL CASE)

.45-70 SHARPS EXPRESS, STRAIGHT (2 1/10" CASE)

.45-70 SHARPS STRAIGHT (2 1/10" CASE)

.45-75 SHARPS STRAIGHT (2 1/10" CASE)

.45-90 SHARP & REMINGTON SPECIAL (CASE LENGTH UNKNOWN)

.45-90 SHARPS STRAIGHT (2 4/10" CASE)

.45-90 SHARPS STRAIGHT (2 6/10" CASE)

.45-100 SHARPS SPECIAL (2 4/10" CASE)

.45-100 SHARPS SPECIAL (2 6/10" CASE)

.45-100 SHARPS SPECIAL (2 7/8" CASE)

.45-100 SHARPS STRAIGHT (2 6/10" CASE)

.45-100 SHARPS STRAIGHT (2 7/8" CASE)

.45-105 SHARPS SPECIAL, STRAIGHT (2 7/8" CASE)

.45-105 SHARPS STRAIGHT (2 7/8" CASE)

.45-120 SHARPS SPECIAL, STRAIGHT (3 1/4" CASE)

.45-120 SHARPS STRAIGHT (3 1/4" CASE)

.45-125 SHARPS SPECIAL, STRAIGHT (3 1/4" CASE)

.45-125 SHARPS and WINCHESTER, STRAIGHT (3 1/4" CASE)

[color=blue].50 CALIBER
[/color]
.50-70 SHARPS (1 3/4" CASE)

.50-85 SHARPS (2" CASE)

.50-90 SHARPS (2" CASE)

.50-90 SHARPS and REMINGTON, STRAIGHT (2 1/2" CASE)

.50-90 SHARPS STRAIGHT (2 1/2" CASE)

.50-100 SHARPS STRAIGHT (2 1/2" CASE)

.50-110 SHARPS STRAIGHT (2 1/2" CASE)

.50-120 SHARPS STRAIGHT (UNKNOWN CASE LENGTH)

.50-140 SHARPS (3 1/4" CASE)

[color=blue].52 CALIBER
[/color]
.52-70 SHARPS (1 1/2" CASE)

.52-70 SHARPS (1 3/4" CASE)

[color=blue].54 CALIBER
[/color]
.54 SHARPS CENTERFIRE (CASE LENGTH UNKNOWN)


#2

Are some of the listed cartridges simply different loadings in the same case?For example the 50?s with the 2 1/2" case


#3

Pivi–Yes, a number of the Sharps cartridges, when empty or as Primed Empty cases (which were available to the public) are the same case. But, as sold by the factories in loaded condition, were different cartridges. The .50-90, .50-100 and .50-110 all used the same 2 1/2 inch case as you said, but, they were loaded, labeled (and in some cases headstamped) and sold as different cartridges


#4

Ron: The 44-90 Remington 2-7/16" case, that really isn’t a Sharps cartridge, It’s listed in a UMC catalog as a Rem Special


#5

Carolyn-- the listing “.44-90 REMINGTON and SHARP (2 7/16 B.)” is from the 1887 E.Remington & Sons catalog.

You are correct, U.M.C. does not list this in the same way.


#6

Ron: I don’t have that year Rem catalog. In the one I do have which is from 1890 the 2 are seperated into 2 different cartridges On the page that lists primed shells though the Rem Special is listed with a case length of 2-7/16" to 2-5/8" and the Sharps is listed separately


#7

Carolyn–It is not clear to me what 1890 catalog you are referring to. E.Remington & Sons had gone out of business in 1888. Did you mean the U.M.C. 1890 catalog?


#8

Ron: Ill send you the cover sheet to the catalog


#9

It has been brought to my attention that my previous post about E. Remington & Sons going out of business in 1888 was incorrect. They were bought by Hartley and Winchester in 1888 but they continued to operate it as E. Remington & Sons until at least 1890. Does anyone know when they quit?


#10

Ron…Remembering back to my days of UMC collecting…UMC used flat-point bullets in the Sharps cartridges, and round nose bullets in what they called “Regular and Remington”, but, for any given caliber and case length, where there was both a “Sharps” and a “Reg and Rem” (40-70, for example), these were interchangeable cases. I think Datig is at least partially incorrect in his statement about interchangeability. I think 1/32" (or less) difference in rim diameter wouldn’t be a problem in a Remington Rolling Block or Sharps Rifle…what do you think ? Also, you asked about REM-UMC boxes for Sharps cartridges…I once had a 44-90 Creedmoor (UMC style cartridges inside), but cannot remember if it had a LIN anywhere on the box. It was of the red/blue lettering variety, so would have been late enough to have the LIN. (Some of my earliest REM-UMC Krag boxes with red lettering only do not have the LIN). Randy


#11

Randy–I agree with you about the shape of the bullets in “Sharps” and “Regular and Remington”, At least the cartridges I have seen and catalog images tend to confirm this. One problem we as collectors have with the Sharps and Remington series is that a LOT of reloading went on with the users of these rifles. So, today, unless it comes out of a sealed box,you can not be sure the original style bullet is in your case. I also agree with you about 1/32" would not cause the two cartridges to not chamber. But, for collecting purposes I’m interested in how to tell the two apart, not wither or not it will chamber in a gun. And for my list, as long as a company listed (and even headstamped sometimes), boxed and sold cartridges such as the .44-90-95-100-105, Necked, 2 5/8 inch as seperate loads, even though I am sure they would all chamber in the same gun, I consider them different cartridges. But once they are fired, unless they are headstamped, you can not tell one from the other.

Thanks for the confirmation about UMC cartridges being re-boxed in REM-UMC boxes. As for the LIN, I don’t think Remington-UMC started using them until about mid-year in 1911. I have seen pictures of several calibers in the earlist REM-UMC boxes without the LIN. I have even seen a few calibers in the same style labeled boxes, one without the LIN and one WITH the LIN, again indicating that the change to LIN labeled boxes, while shortly after the merger, was not done immediatly. I think they probably changed to the LIN’s for the Sept. Pricelist in 1911, where they had not been insituted yet in the Winter/Spring 1911 Pricelist. And, as far as I have been able to find, except for Shot Shells, U.M.C. never used them. UMC started using LIN’s for shot shells for the first time in the 1896 catalog. I wish I could find a Dealers Pricelist for 1911/12. I only have the Retail catalog and the LIN’s were not used in the Retail catalogs until 1936


#12

Yes, Ron…I agree…many of the Sharps cartridges we find today have been reloaded or handloaded…When I collected UMC stuff…I had many I considered original factory loads…as they either came directly from boxes, or “appeared” original…i.e…correct bullet, no evidence of having been previously fired, primer correct with no tool marks around the pocket from a decapping tool, etc. I agree with your nomenclature, as used by the factories…44-95, 100, etc., but even if you had original factory loads (without the box), it might be hard to tell one from the other, as a 5 or 10 grain difference in powder charge might be hard to detect when you add in minor differences in bullet weight, case weight, etc. Let me know if you need any help from UMC catalogs…as I have a bunch of them…I once sent you a list of what I have…but don’t know if you ever received it…Randy


#13

Randy–You are probably right that if they are not headstamped once they are out of the box they can not be accuratly determined. Why-oh-why didn’t the factories think of us poor cartridge collectors and headstamp EVERYTHING!!!

Please see your email about the UMC catalogs.


#14

NDFS was a small english factory that made a lot of cases in obsolete calibers.
Maybe someone on this forum has a NDFS product list.This factory is now out of businness.
I don’t know if they ever made sharps cases,but it is highly probable.
I have several NDFS cases,they are lathe turned.Some are without headstamps others are headstamped “NDFS plus caliber”.

In the 2008 Starline catalog there are listed the 45-2,6" and the 50-90 sharps cases


#15

Hi Ron,

I have some additions, corrections and questions.

The addition list was compiled from catalogs (other than E. REM and UMC), original boxes and original specimens.

All LOADS & CASE LENGHTS are confirmed by any of the sources listed above (no “cartridge collector loads”).

ADDITION: .17-222 SHARPS MAGNUM (made by RWS in 1968)
I know, not an original Sharps, but SHARPS named.

ADDITION: .38-55 REMINGTON, SHARPS & BALLARD (255 gr. bullet)
Very uncommon synonym (from E. Rem. box)

CORRECTION: Real specimens of the .40-45 REMINGTON MID RANGE, 1 7/8" CASE differ in case lenght from the .40-45 SHARPS and REMINGTON, STRAIGHT (1 7/8" CASE)
(47,11-47,77 mm vs. 48,30-48,70 mm)

QUESTION: .40-65 SHARPS, STRAIGHT (2 7/16" CASE)
First reference? Graham Burnside?

QUESTION: .40-65 SHARPS, STRAIGHT (2 7/8" CASE)
First reference? Graham Burnside?

ADDITION: .40-80 SHARPS, NECKED (2 1/4" CASE) (330 grs. bullet)

ADDITION: .40-100 SHARPS, NECKED (2 5/8


#16

Fede–Thanks for all the additional information and corrections. However, I am no longer working on the Sharps Checklist. I found out that John Belton in Canada is working on a book on Sharps cartridges and he has 100 times the information that I could ever hope to compile. He has been working on his project since the 1960’s.

I suggest you send all the above information to him in an email as he does not read this Forum on a regular basis and may not see your post. Check the IAA Membership List for his email address. If you do not have this list, send me an email and I will give you John Belton’s email.