Sherwood International Export Corp. "SIEC" and Yugoslavia

Does anybody know which calibers Prvi Partizan Uzice and Igman Konjic made for SIEC with “SIEC IK” and “SIEC PPU” headstamps?
Means I want to know which factory made which calibers for SIEC. And was there a cross-over in calibers?
Were both making cartridges for SIEC at the same time?

Alex, here is a list of the cartridges made by IK and PPU with a SIEC headstamp. All were made in 1985 but only the ones by IK are dated on the headstamp (i.e., “IK-85 SIEC”).

IK:
.223 Remington
.30-06
.50 Browning
7.62x39
7.62x51

PPU:
6.35 mm Browning
7.62x25
7.65 mm Browning
9 mm Parabellum
.357 Magnum
.38 Special
.380 Auto
.45 Auto

.223 Remington
.30 Carbine
.30-06
.303 British
7x57
7.62x39
7.62x51
7.62x54R
8x57

EOD - I think I have most all of the variations of the “SIEC” marked cartridges. There may be a couple missing. I have never seen a complete list that I can remember or find in my files.

Following are all the rounds I have. Bear in mind that the vast majority of the SIEC-headstamped cartridges from Prvi Partizan are actually inert dummies, although there is nothing to tell one that visible on the cartridges themselves.
It is the box label that tells us that.

Unless noted, all the cartridges are in brass case, brass primer cups and with the typical Yugoslavian reddish-orange primer seals:

Pistol:

nny .25 AUTO SIEC
nny 7.62mmTT SIEC
nny .21 AUTO SIEC
nny .380AUTO SIEC
nny 9mmLUGER SIEC
nny 9mmLUGER SIEC (Hollow Point)
nny .45 AUTO SIEC

Revolver:

nny .38 SPECIAL SIEC (Lead RN, Nickel primer cup)
nny .38 SPECIAL SIEC (Lead SWC, brass primer cup)
nny .357 MAG SIEC (JHP)

Rifle:

nny .223 Rem SIEC
nny 7 x 57 SIEC
nny .30 Car SIEC
nny 7.62 x 39 SIEC
nny 7.62 x 39 SIEC (Nickel case and nickel primer cup)
nny .308 SIEC
nny .30-06 SIEC
nny .30-06 SIEC (Nickel case and nickel primer cup, heavy ball inside case)
nny .303 Brit. SIEC
nny 7.62 x 54 SIEC
nny 8 x 57 SIEC

IK headstamped rounds:

IK-85 SIEC .223R (hole in side of case)
IK-85 SIEC 7.62 x 39 (hole in side of case)
IK-85 SIEC 7.62 x 39 (Nickel case, nickel primer cup, hole in side of case)
IK-85 SIEC .308W (Hole in side of case)
IK-85 SIEC 30-06S (Hole in side of case)
IK-85 SIEC 30-06S (No hole in case side)
IK-85 SIEC 30-06S (Nickel case, brass primer cup, hole in case side
SIEC IK 85 .50 (no hole in case, cartridge in .50 single link. No visible markings
on link)

All the jacketed-bullet loads are with GM bullets of appropriate FMJ shape for the calibers, except that the nny 7.62 x 54 has a GMCS bullet and the SIEC IK 85 .50 has a GMCS bullet.

All of the pistol loads are non-magnetic, GM bullets (except for those revolver rounds with lead bullets)

Hope this is of some help. While it likely means nothing, the hardest one of these for me to find for my own collection was the 7 x 57 round.

Fede beat me to it by a few minutes. Sorry for the duplication. I do see that I have some listed that he did not. All of mine were just typed a few minutes ago with specimens of all in hand. Nothing was done from previous lists, so I can assure you that all the ones I listed so exist.

Fede and John, great info you both supplied. Thanks a lot! You saved me from a lengthy research.

John, yes, I noticed there is these “dummy boxes” (with content which is not to be told apart from life cartridges).
Do you happen to know the reason why this was done in such a rather unusual way? And why so many of these dummies, was there a need for them?
Also why did they make dummies with repsective hs but no loaded cartridges? It seems making bunters and cases but no final production of life ammo is a costly issue.

EOD - I don’t know why they made so many of these dummies. I used to know the whole story on them, but have forgotten a lot of it now. They were sent as samples, and it seems to me there was some political reason why there was no follow-up order, but I could be wrong. I forget now when it was that an embargo was slapped on arms and ammunition sales by Yugoslavia. I seem to recall that the Hansen Cartridge Company, who may have been the first major importer of PPU ammo into the U.S., lost that line over a political decision as well, and began using to IMI ammo from Israel to maintain their brnad name. I believe that Valor Imports was the first company to sell PPU ammo in the country, but as I recall, they only sold a few select pistol calibers, and were basically a “Pawn Shop” brand.

I actually had my first contact with Bill Woodin due to the Valor Imports of Yugo ammo. There was a police inquiry, probably from the Tucson police, about a cartridge with PPU headstamp and Bill couldn’t identify it. He somehow got information that I know about it… When my wife told me that he had called me at home while I was at work, because he wanted me to ID a cartridge for him, I thought she was crazy! Just so happens, though, that there was a Pawn Shop right across the street from the Gun Exchange, when we were on 4th Street in downtown San Francsco, who sold it. I ID’ed it for him and then bought a 25 round box of each caliber and sent it down to him. That would have been in the early 1970s. That began a 40+ year friendship!

I guess I like PPU ammo because it was responsible for a lot of awfully good memories for me.

I will see Steve F. on Saturday, and will ask him about it. I think he knows more about Sherwood and the PPU connection than anyone.

If you need a box photo, let me know. I don’t know how many calibers I have the box for, but I know I have the .25 auto box for sure, because I just upgraded it.

John, thanks again!

As IK-SIEC seems to be all from 1985 I wonder if anybody can relate a date to PPU maybe?

Some of these dummies were also made with a hole in the case, so another variation to iook for.

Also the non-holed dummies often do not have a flash hole.

I have five 7.62x39’s by Sherwood
Three with the IK-85,
Two have case holes, brass primers & annulus seal variations weight is about 238 gr, for each.
The third without a case-hole weighs about 265 gr. and it has a nickel primer.

The two with the nny headstamp are without holes, have brass primers and show annulus seal variation.
With sealant just at the outer edge it weighs 242 gr.
The other had a brother that was pulled apart & no flash hole or powder & it also weighs 242 gr. & the seal is over a good bit of the primer so apparently sealant application is not going to be of help determining which is what.

However the primer my be a hint as to live or inert. I would still pull down a sample to be sure.

Pete - I had mentioned the holes in cases, but the ones in my collection are all from IK. Do you have any of the PPU (nny) rounds with a hole in the case?

Hi John
I’ll have to check, other case types, which I can’t do probably until Monday next.

Knew I had a collection of the AK’s so it would be easy.

But nothing is ever easy, is it.

Never seen any of the nickeled case variations you list.

Another to ask might be Bob. R. think he was working for Jay Hansen about that time & I know he was doing some of the inerting for Jay, but then again I don’t know if Jay had anything to do with SIEC.

Pete,

To my knowledge, Jay had no connection to Sherwood, either the gun parts section of the company or the International Export Corporation part.

Alex, some collectors reported that they first obtained samples of these cartridges at the Shot Show held in Houston, Texas, in January, 1986, which agrees with a 1985 manufacture. Also, based on comments made by collectors, it seems that these cartridges were not available in the market until 1987. In concordance with this, in 1987-88 SIEC published ads offering cartridges in caliber .223, .30-06, .308 and 7.62x39.

Fede, thanks for narrowing down the time frame. Much appreciated!

I talked to my friend about the SIEC cartridges. He could offer no explanation why the inert rounds were made in such large quantities, but they were basically samples that Mike Kokin of Sherwood International had requested. He had a deposit with PPU for live ammo to be made when SIEC inspected the samples and was satisfied, which they were.

About that time, both PPU and IK got inquiries from the middle east, one from Iraq and one from Iran. Either the two countries were already at war, or getting ready, and were each willing to buy just about as much ammo of the calibers they wanted that the two respective companies were able to produce.

Basically, Kokin was offered his deposit back, which he likely accepted, and it was not any kind of Foreign (to Yugoslavia) intervention thru embargo that killed the main order for the SIEC line of ammo, but rather the Yugoslavian companies themselves.

Thinking back, what I found out about them from SIEC was along those lines. I had fogotten, but Steve was much closer to them than was I, even though our store had some dealings with Sherwood’s on Mauser stripper clips, as I recall (another story told once some years ago on this Forum) and when I visited them later with a friend of mine from Sweden, they were very cordial to us. That visit was long before the SIEC ammo question.

Steve remembers the basic time frame being in the mid-eighties, which is one more confirmation of what we have already learned on this thread.

Just received this interesting 7.62 x 39mm Igman - Sherwood box (courtesy of a Forum member) with 20 dummy rounds, dated (19)85:

IMG_6613a

IMG_6620a

Brian

scan0188

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