SIBFIRE Commercial 7.62X54mmR & .308 Win. FMJ Subsonic Loadings

So far apparently both subsonic loadings have only been on display at a show of some kind. It appears that both calibers are displayed in both a brass cartridge case and bimetallic cartridge case.

7.62x54mmR shown and discussed here-

In the photo above it appears that the 4 cartridges on the right have bimetallic cases and 5 cartridges to the left have brass cases

.308 Winchester shown and discussed here:

NOTE the bimetallic cases on the left and brass cases on the right in the photo above.

I used the Google translator to translate the forum discussions but the translations are not that good, so any of the Forum members here that are fluent in Russian would you please take a look at these pages and add here any helpful information. THANKS!!!


PS: For information on SIBFIRE: New "SIBFIRE" logo and boxes of LVE (Novosibirsk, plant #188)

Brian, nothing special there.


  • The bullet was meant to be a copy of the M1891 round nose (though it weighs less), also the proj. part engaging the rifling is way smaller as it is a “bi-caliber” design (no surprise *)
  • Here declared as “subsonic hunting cartridge”.

As for “hunting”: in Germany any hunter using these would go to jail then.

I wonder if this projectile will have a bright future or will disappear soon.

*What noone mentioned there is that the proj. jacket of the T-46M or BT-90 tracers was used to make the round-nose type (i.e. early draw stages thereof - may also explain the not very round round-nose). And as some of you may remember these tracer loads are bi-caliber designs.

1 Like

Perhaps, for these bullets used blanks from tracers. The shape of the nose is similar to that obtained after the first crimp. But, as far as I remember, after the first crimp, the bullet looks much more “sharp”…
But I heard that these bullets are planning by making from a solid bar a copper alloy.

A step is needed to reduce the effort of installing a bullet in a rifling.

It looks like a bullet from the cartridge “high pressure”, but it is much longer.

Crimping stages.

It should be such a bullet.PGT
But it turns out this.

1 Like

Alex, why should a german hunter go to jail, using this bullet??
Silencers where obtainable by hunters on special demand and extra license…but now since January 2020 no need anymore for an extra license to buy a silencer, if you are a holder of a german huntinglicense (Jahresjagdschein…no Jugendjagdschein)…The Auth. have to put your silencer into your file…thats it…no prelicensing anymore…The USE of them is still regulated by Countryside…means the approbriate Landesjagdgesetz, which entitles or not the use of silencers in your huntingarea. Not allowed are silencers for guns firing rimfire ammo…iE .22lr, .17 Rf a.s.o.
So, due to the Föderalismus we have areas where I can hunt with silencers attached, and in some others not…but possession and buying alone is free, as long you have a hunting permit


I think I heard that in Germany only expansive rifled bullets are allowed to hunt ungulates.
FMJ bullets and shotguns are banned.

i do not knew, who tells you that…its untrue

Peter, I was about the projectile energy predicted by German hunting law.
And a subsonic FMJ surely will not do the job I think.

Stiven, the “subsonic” bullet here was made from a tracer jacket.
It is not related to the “VD” (HPT barrel proof) or the ballistic sampling bullets.

the huntig law gives only a minimum for Deer (which is 1000Joule at 100Meter) and for “Schalenwild”… (means antler/Hirsch, Wildboar,a.s.o) of 2000Joule at 100Meter and a minimumcaliber of 6,5mm…
I do not knew, what ballistic data is given for the above silencer round. If it does not suit the above criteria, it still can be used to hunt anything else…fox, lynx…where it is allowed, Wolf, a.s.o


I heard somewhere …
Perhaps in some lands?
At another time?
Not important.

There is no evidence that the blank from the tracer was used.
But there are the words “representative of the plant” that the bullets are planned for manufacture on a lathe.
Perhaps, for the experimental batch, defective billets from tracer bullets after manual completion were used. This may be evidenced by a slightly different form, usually characteristic of manual making.
But if You have at least a minimal idea of ​​the plants production of ammunition, then You understand that no one will destroy the existing production line of service ammunition for the sake of an experimental batch of unknown, but also civilian purposes.

Evidence for me is the guy that has access to the factory and told me this.

And the jackets can be taken of the production line at a particular draw stage and then being finished on another line (they have spare lines and also some for smaller scale productions, some even German lines from WW2). Also you may need to keep in mind that when one line is not being used because no current contract is being worked off a line can be used for other items too.
And as they are offering these for sale I assume they are not experimental anymore.