Small quizz


#1

The trade mark “GG” (see picture) was registered by SFM when it was founded by Jules Felix Gevelot and Victor Gaupillat in 1884 and this mark “GG” was for “Gevelot Gaupillat”.
Right or no ???
JP

[color=#0040FF]Philippe and Yves, don’t give the answer at once please ![/color]


#2

Maybe the second G is after his father, Andre Gaupillat, who founded the original Capsulerie Gaupillat? or his son Marcel Gaupillat?

Maybe it was trademarked by Capsulerie Gaupillat previous to being transferred to SFM?

Or the same thing, just from the other company, Joseph Marino Gévelot, father of Jules Gévelot, etc…


#3

It is not that Aaron, but I like your reasoning.
jp


#4

Only one guy who dared, nobody else !!!

Not very playfull the people overhere !!!

I am very much disappointed

jp


#5

Every source I have, including Dr. Regenstreif’s books, shows that the “GG” mark represents
the names “Gevelot” and “Gaupillat.” However, most stress that is is the Trademark of S.F.M.


#6

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Every source I have, including Dr. Regenstreif’s books, shows that the “GG” mark represents
the names “Gevelot” and “Gaupillat.” However, most stress that is is the Trademark of S.F.M.[/quote]

hello John,
nice to see you entering the game.

GG is a trademark of SFM, yes it is.

But GG never means Gevelot and Gaupillat.
As I said in my post on DWM, be carefull with books when they include no reference.
99% of the people (including me till recently) believe GG is gevelot gaupillat. But it is not true.

So what could it mean ???

JP


#7

Well JP, You can make that 99.9%

Pascal


#8

Could it be GEVELOT GEVARM ?


#9

GEVARM trademark was not filed until the 1950s


#10

How about Andre Gaupillat and Guindorff?

It appears they worked together on something, along with Illig and Masse.


#11

[quote=“Aaron”]How about Andre Gaupillat and Guindorff?

It appears they worked together on something, along with Illig and Masse.[/quote]

Hi Aaron,
it is not that.

I will help you :

There is no Gaupillat in this trade mark
JP


#12

Jean Pierre, this is an amazing find, thank you very much for sharing. It would be something like “Gévelot & Gévelot” (Joseph-Marin Gévelot and Jules-Félix Gévelot)?


#13

Nothing to do with St-Germain close to Issy-les-Moulineaux ?


#14

no Pascal.

where are you from?

jp


#15

Hello JP,
Close to Gent , Belgium


#16

[quote=“SCALLY”]Hello JP,
Close to Gent , Belgium[/quote]

Ah Ok!

I thought you were french.
perhaps we met at an ECRA meeting.

JP


#17

The question was :

The trade mark “GG” (see above) was registered by SFM when it was founded by Jules Felix Gevelot and Victor Gaupillat in 1884 and this mark “GG” was for “Gevelot Gaupillat”.
Right or no ???

It is false of course.

Here is the story of this trade mark.

Fisrt chapiter :

  1. In the old times threre was in France a shotshells manufacturer called Robert Francois Gosselin in Charenton (city close to Paris)
    On the [color=#0000BF]5th december of 1868 [/color]he registered the GG trade mark (N° 3298) at the Commercial Chamber of Paris
    Note that the first G is for Gosselin and the second one again for Gosselin
    With such a mark you can read the G even if the headstamp is upside down

  2. Robert Francois Gosselin retired and the business was carried by his son, Georges Gosselin, located in Clichy (another city close to Paris) and in Charenton
    The renewal of the trade mark was done on the [color=#0000BF]28th of January 1887 [/color](N° 28174) at the Commercial Chamber of Paris)

  3. The Georges Gosselin company went out of business on the [color=#0000BF]28 th of March 1889[/color]

Second chapter :
On the [color=#0000BF]15 th december of 1884[/color], Jules Felix Gevelot and Victor Gaupillat went into partnership to set up the SFM : Societe Francaise des munitions de chasse, tir et guerre (old Gevelot and Gaupillat compagnies)

But the feeling between these two people was not good and [color=#0000BF]in 1887 [/color]Gevelot bought partner’s share of Gaupillat and this last one left the company
Third chapter :
On the [color=#0000BF]12th of January of 1891[/color], SFM registered the GG trade mark (N° 38343) at the Commercial Chamber of Paris.
This trademark was indeed available because at this date Gosselin company was out of business

Conclusion :
[color=#0000BF]Till march 1889 [/color](liquidation of the Gosselin company) GG was for Gosselin and nobody can use it.
Therefore it cannot be for Gevelot & Gaupillat

Gaupillat was member of SFM from only from 1884 to 1887, and when SFM registered the trade mark in [color=#0000BF]1891[/color], he was no more in the company.
Therfore GG cannot include “Gaupillat”

So, what was the meaning of GG [color=#0000BF]after 1891 [/color]?
In my opinion it was simply G for Gevelot and G for Gevelot.
Excatly like Gosselin did, you always read the G even if the hstp is upside down.

SFM still wrotte “old Gevelot & gaupillat companies” on its ctges and catalogues because this sentence was included in the denomination of SFM.

But using the name Gaupillat for the meaning of a trade mark, or even refering to this name, was another story (don’t forget in this times the compagnies were quick to sue a competitor specially about trade marks)

Gevelot chose GG because it was a illusion for commercial use to delude the people (even some guys of the 21th century !)
The people could always think it was for Gevelot Gaupillat but jules Felix Gevelot was smart enough to be able to prove it was only for Gevelot Gevelot if he got problems !!

Note for collectors :
An interesting point is is the fact you can [b]date a ctge with the hstp GG.[/b[color=#0000BF]]It is from after 1891 (and Gaupillat has nothing to see with it !!)[/color]

PS : Fede, i am still waiting your answer on “south american shotshells”

JP


#18

Thanks JP.
A few questions.
Did George Gosselin headstamp any of his shotshells?

Are the registered GG trade marks No 3298, and 38343, identical?

Is it not possible, that Jules Gevelot wanted the GG trade mark for his old partner?
(Maybe he was making so much money by that time, or Robert passed, that he wanted to honor him.)

Did Jules have a son, like Robert Gosselin did, who could take over the company?

Any known headstamps by Jules Gevelot, before January, 1891?

Thanks,
Dan


#19

I know on pinfires they used G and GJ


#20

[color=#0000BF]!!! a lot of questions !!![/color][quote=“Dan”]Thanks JP.
A few questions.
Did George Gosselin headstamp any of his shotshells?
[color=#0000BF]Yes . “sans deperdition”, “omnibus”, for example[/color]

Are the registered GG trade marks No 3298, and 38343, identical?
[color=#0000BF]yes[/color]
Is it not possible, that Jules Gevelot wanted the GG trade mark for his old partner?
(Maybe he was making so much money by that time, or Robert passed, that he wanted to honor him.)
[color=#0000BF]No, I don’t think because they were in conflict I told you[/color]
Did Jules have a son, like Robert Gosselin did, who could take over the company?
[color=#0000BF]I have to check in my files.
I can tell you one thing. He has no daughter, therefore when people tell you one of the daughter of gevelot married Leon Beaux, it is bullshit!!![/color]
Any known headstamps by Jules Gevelot, before January, 1891?
[color=#0000BF]“bird”, JOB, G, GJ, aso[/color]Thanks,
Dan[/quote]