Smith and Wesson Cartridges


#1

Hello Gentlemen.
Can anyone out there give me a short history of Smith and Wesson brand ammo? I see it all the time, but have never really understood when it was made.


#2

if you go here http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&content=11504&sectionId=10002 you may find some info.
Simon


#3

John Witzel’s website shows that at least some S&W ammo was made by Canadian Industries Ltd (CIL).Apparently you can tell
the CIL ones by the headstamp.They have two dots in front of
the S&W & two behind. …S&W…


#4

I glanced the IAA journal index and found these articles listed:
9 mm Pb Smith & Wesson-Fiocchi Loadings 271/23
Smith & Wesson-Fiocchi 175/1

I have some notes about IVI, Starline, Olin, CIL and Fiocchi (Italy) making S&W ammo, but I need to dig them up.


#5

Thanks!


#6

If S&W did not made ammunition, who made this 9mm round.
The base is painted dark green.

Thanks in advance.

Rgds,
Dutch


#7

Thruout the history of self-contained cartridges, ammunition has been offered under various brand names by companies that did not load the ammunition, or manufacture any of the components, themselves. Probably Sears Roebuck Co. and Montgomery-Ward offer the best known examples of this. This is partially true, at least, of Smith and Wesson also, since no ammunition was produced at the gun factory. I cannot give the whole story here - it is too long and much is beyond my knowledge and interest, since I specialize in auto pistol ammunition. However, suffice it to say that they offered a fairly normal line of pistol and revolver ammunition, and some rifle calibers. as well as shotshells. Regarding 9mm Parabellum, Four different companies produced the 9mm cartridgecases, and perhaps other compnents as well, for Smith and wesson, one of them under two different names. The earliest was Olin Industries (Winchester), who produced the first headstamp, “S&W-F 9mm” for the S&W Company. The “F” stands for Fiocchi. There was some sort of working agreement between Smith and Wesson, and Fiocchi, of Lecco, Italy when the two companies jointly purchased the Alcan Company, Inc. Regardless, Fiocchi never made any of the 9mm ammo or cases for S&W. There is a question, by the way, if the various case makers actually loaded the ammo, or if it was loaded at the former Alcan Company’s facility. I have no answer for that. Olin started producing cases in March 1971. Canadian Industries Ltd. produced their first lot of 9mm cases for S&W-F in the same year, with headstamp “S&W-F 9MM” (large “Ms” looking like upside down “Ws”). In 1972, C.I.L.'s second lot had a headstamp just like Olin’s, but with larger letters. In late 1972, Amron made cases, again with the same headstamp as the Olin one, but with even smaller letters than Olin’s. In late 1972, Bangor-Punta, then owner of S&W, bought out the Fiocchi interest. After that, the “F” on the headstamp was dropped. In 1974, Olin made cases without the “F”, headstamped “S & W 9 mm” followed by Federal in 1973 and 1974, who used the same headstamp but with larger letters than those used by Olin. Finally, Industries Valcartier Incorporee (IVI), successor to C.I.L., made the bulk of the cases for 1974 and on, headstamped “: S & W : 9MM” with the two double-dots appearing as colons (vertically, not horizontally) at roughly the 2:30 and 9:30 positions on the cartridge head. Once S&W ceased operations in the ammunition business, surplus brass cases were sold and show up in the loadings of other companies. The pointed, steel bullet shown in one of the answers to this thread was load by American Ballistics, of Marietta, Georgia, using S&W brass. Reference: Original pre-publication copy of “Smith and Wesson-Fiocchi/ Smith and Wesson 9mm Parabellum” by John S. Guenther, and author’s collection. I apologize for no headstamp photos. I do not have a camera. Perhaps someone with all of these headstamps can post pictures of them to this thread.


#8

Back to the original question of this thead concerning S&W .22 Long Rifle. They were first produced in 1974 and were manufactured under contract by Cartuchos Deportivos de Mexico, S.A., Cuernavaca, Mexico.


#9

[quote=“Dutch”]If S&W did not made ammunition, who made this 9mm round.
The base is painted dark green.

Thanks in advance.
Rgds,
Dutch[/quote]
Looks like an American Ballistics rnd. Believe they were located in Georgia, USA. My best guess.