Smokeless Diamond


#1

Ok, Rene/Pete,

We did the Amberite now let’s try the Smokeless Diamond, I will start it this way so as to provoke some response.
This is most probably the best known shotgun cartridge powder ever made and I think stayed in use for the longest of any powder.

So;
Did Curtis and Harvey ever make a cartridge called the Smokeless Diamond or Diamond (lots use Smokeless in their title), again we see plenty of cartridge variations of loaded with, in all bores sizes and colours. Has anybody anything really different from the norm.

I will start the ball rolling with a few “standard cartridge cases” and then throw in a talking point!




First one




Second one




Third one

This one has me puzzled!




Forth and last one, as you can see this is not an Eley case.

Any ideas more than welcome.

Mike.


#2

Mike, sorry but no idea on the DIAMOND headstamped variation. Very neat shell & headstamp, though. very neat!

However I do have one with the same case print as your 3rd one & but for the Lined Nitro Case is not in a box as yours is. it has a CURTIS’S & HARVEY Ltd No LONDON 12 headstamp. only have two & would call neither branded, & the same for yours as all say “loaded with”.


#3

[quote=“Eightbore”]
Any ideas more than welcome.
Mike.[/quote]

About your forth one, first check the rim thickness.
And if it is thinner than than the british ones, try Fiocchi
jp


#4

Again, we have the case of various cases, made by one company, and loaded with another’s Powder. This situation still occurs today…a lot of European Brands of Shotshells have their shells made/assembled by one of the Major manufacturers, then loaded in house by the Customer with somebody else’s Powder, and sold under a “trade brand”…so that the headstamp (usually a Generic type, such as “12ga and ***” is the Headstamp Id (NO factory indicator) and the body label refers to whoever “filled” the case, or even to the Retailer/wholesaler who ordered the Lot.

BTW, “Diamond Powder” is not just a trade name, but is a descriptive name for Diamond-shaped Flake Powder ( actually little Rhomboids of flat Nitrocellulose or N/C and NG Double base…Extruded as a flat sheet, then sliced by rotating disc knives into strips like Tagliatelle Pasta, then cross cut (or guillotined) at an angle of the strips to create a "Diamond "Shape. Frrench and German Powders of before WW I were made in this fashion; eventually German Powders settled on a “Rectangular /Square” shape ( final slicing was simpler) such as G.Bl.P ( Gewehr Blattchen Pulver…Rifle Flake Powder)
in use till the end of WW II.

Current European Powders with “Diamond” shapes include the RIO series (Now Maxam of Spain, formerly UEE)…all their shotgun Powders are Rhomboid flakes. Italian Powders can be both Square and Rhomboid, as used by Fiocchi ( Powders such as Baschieri & Pellagri, and SNIA Viscosa.)

IN Turn of the century ( early 1900s) Ammunition, identifying the Powder used was a marketing Tool, given the good market response C&H already had with its Black Powder… It’s like saying, if it’s by C&H, thenit must be good!"
Once the initial patents or registrations ran out, anybody could make a similar Powder (Flake Diamonds) ,but could not call it “Diamond” as this was a TM registered by C&H…of course, Eley would have had a TM Licence agreement with C&H for the use of the TM on their cartridges. ( so many pence ( or fraction there-of)per cartridge produced)?

Doc AV


#5

HI Mike,

Nice subjects you have!
Never thought about them this way.

Here are the varieties in my collection.

Regards rené


#6

HI all,

here are two other ones. the 16 Ga is made by Fiocchi.
Note the mistake in the spelling of harwey!
The 12 Ga is made by Piloni.


regards rené


#7

Rene,

Nice difference to see foreign cases.

Mike.


#8

[quote=“Eightbore”]Rene,

Nice difference to see foreign cases.

Mike.[/quote]

Mike,

Last July I told you :

About your forth one, first check the rim thickness.
And if it is thinner than the british ones, try Fiocchi

Did you try ?

JP


#9

Hi JeanPierre,

Yes I did with mine, nearly the same thickness to within about 0.003"/0.004" (0.1 of a mm) to the average case of 0.002" (0.05 mm) to a best case, too close to call with a vernier.

But I do agree with the case was not made in the UK but as we know plenty weren’t, you probably are right.

Mike.