Solid Brass Serbian 7.62x39


#1

This Serbian solid brass projectile has what looks like casting lines going from tip to bottom of the projectile, almost like someone forgot to finish it by turning. (pic 1) The Weight of projectile is 123.8 grains, Dia. .3101", and Length 1.0385". It contained ball powder that had been stuck together in clumps of 3 or 4, with all the other rounds in the crate having stick powder. Brass cases that has the extractor groove that looks to have been turned after it was acid washed, in that it is shiny /new looking when compared to the rest of the case. Berdan primed. Headstamp NNY/92
They were found by a collector friend (Jack Wells) in a ammo crate that was labeled " NK 1990 API". It contained mixed headstamps ranging from IK, NK, NNY, PKI, and dated from NK/68 - NNY/1994, plus some with no headstamps. The 30 round packs are labeled in Serbian “PEMOHTOBAH” which when translated by EOD, equates to “refurbished” in English. wolfgang


Rarest 7.62x39 you have
#2

Bullets are Not “Cast” but Swaged, probably in “split dies”, which leave a “seam line”. ( Just like drop-forging of steel). They should have tried the French method, used since 1898 to make Balle D ( also solid, but “90/10” manufacturing bronze…actually a red brass). The only turning required is the neck crimp cannelure.
??AP??..probably will pierce Body armour, even NIJ III or IV grade.

REMONTOVAN ( Cyr: PEMOHTOBAH) means " re-made, re-furbished,re-mounted, restored,rebuilt, etc." (Serbo-Croat)
It could mean anything from repacked to remanufactured.

Nice uncommon ammo.
Good sectioning as well.

Regards,
Doc AV


#3

I would like to exclude repacking since such ammunition is known from Yugoslavia and it had no such indication on.
The “remontovan” so far was always found on essentially refurbished ammunition.
Also the Yugoslav manual on ammunition markings is mentioning “repacked” (“perepakovan”) as a different term than “remontovan”. Means the translation of the word “remonotovan” may give several possibilities while the meaning in military is strictly related to “refurbished”.


#4

Please allow me to elabrate on the contents of the crate(NK 1990,API.) these came in: There were about a handfull of the Serbian Solid Bullet rounds,which looked to have been acid washed in the crate loose,and it was definately a lite crate (Not fully packed).The contents,looked like they had just been dumped in to fill the crate ,then banded. There were several 15 & 40 rd boxes that were water stained,but contents were shootable.As kevin stated these solid brass bullet rds.contained Ball Powder,while the same dates,when pulled from 15 rd. boxes contained stick powder.The best box was a labeled PPU 1984,which contained NNY 1984 Rds.The remainder of the crate contained 30 round packs,which were hvy. duty clear plastic. The rds. were packed in two (2) rows of 15@.,and packs heat sealed on the ends . I will call these the first type labeled packs. These had a label with 30 hand written in a blank in front of the Serbian word for number.next on the label was 7,62 x 39 w/ Serbian designition for Caliber,on bottom were eight (8) small boxes with 95 hand written into the first two boxes.This type pack,contained Headstamps as listed by Keven,additionally there were four (4) varients of nonhead stamped rounds: (1) Normal,no signs of Pr. crimp (2) Heavy short 3 stake w/ Ni.Pr., (3) 3 shallow long line stab Pr. Crimp, and (4) A total of three (3) rds. with beveled bases ,which gives them the look of a rebated base Ctg, and best, were a few Rds. headstamped HMP 95.
The second type label pack,was again 30 rd.packed in a clear plastic sleeve w/ pre printed labels, but with 30 for the number of cartridges preprinted ,and with the word PEMOHTOBAH under METAK 7,62 x 39 ,and the blocks at bottom filled in:96 62 95 76 with SB-515 written above the last foud (4) blocks on the label.Most if not all the cases in these packs,showed evidence of having been fired (Ejector marks on base,plus dent in the side of case),all had ringed in Prs, with Strawberry Red Pa., and loaded with the standard M 67 projectile.
There was also one badly corroded API rd. loose in the crate
I will take one of each lable to SLICS,and with luck some one there can photograph,and post them on the forum.
Thanks to Kevin,Russ,EOD,Han’s ,Doc. AV.,and others for theie imput,and help.
Jack

As a side note several have stated they thought the HMP 95 was an out country contract to resupply Serbia as NATO destroyed several of their ordnance producing factrories by bombing them during the “Balkings War.”

Charles.J. Wells (Jack)
Sgm.USA.Ret.


#5

Ok, we wait for the labels then, they may give valuable info on the whole subject.


#6

Doc, how exactly did the French make Balle D?


#7

The French swaged them as the front section and the aft section, the radial “seam” was located where the crimping groove was turned later.


#8

Thanks for that.

Given that the use of lead-free bullets is gradually spreading (and is likely to become more important, especially in the military), that really leaves copper and steel (or alloys thereof) as the only practical materials for small-arms bullets, except for the very expensive tungsten-cored AP types.

So that raises questions about the optimum method of manufacturing such bullets. The new 5.56mm M855A1 EPR bullet seems unnecessarily complicated, with a semi-jacket plus a copper slug plus a steel penetrator. I have seen similar-performing bullets made simply by glueing a steel penetrator into the nose of a copper bullet. And of course, for precision sniping, bullets are sometimes made from CNC machine-turned brass.

Any thoughts about how the different methods of making copper-alloy bullets (with or without steel cores or penetrators) compare using modern manufacturing technology, taking into account the military’s need to make vast quantities at minimum cost?


#9

In doing some research on Serbia,it would seem my information source’s, were correct in that NATO did in fact bomb Serbian Ordnance facilities,but not until 1999.So if the 95 on the HMP 95 head stamped round is for 1995 production,this would indicate the HMP 95 would be for an earlier resupply or a production order for another country ?
“See you in St. Louie”, have to finish loading the car and we will leave early tomorrow for “SLICS”, hope to see you there
Jack

Charles.J. Wells (Jack)
Sgm.USA. Ret.


#10

does the HMP headstamped stuff have the three stake crimp like on the Iranian stuff supplied to Bosnia with the ‘7,62x39’ over ‘95’ headstamp? That stuff is non-magnetic with a nickel plated primer and three stake crimp like you define. The font will help a lot with the ID


#11

Definitely not of Yugoslavian (Privi, Igman, or Sovnir) origin. If i had to call it with only this info id say Italy or Greace made contract ammo. This is in reguards to the HMP 95 headstamp)


#12

After I have seen the label Jack mentioned and some little research the manufacturer of these three cartridges (solid brass proj. with PPU case, case with “HMP” hs and those without hs from the same packings) is:
“Energoinvest Novi a.d. tvornica nisko-naponske opreme” in Doboj which is Bosnia-Herzegovina today.

Also the two lebels basically do explain the presence of “PPU” cases since the packing that contained those has the “remontovan” (repaired = reloaded) on while the packing wich is indicating self produced ammunition holds the “HMP” hs and the non head stamped rounds. Since the labels are in Cyrillic script we have to assume that the “HMP” is Cyrillic too and will be “NMR” then what as we see does not sound like an abbreviation of the factory name but the label is clear about the origin and the content.

The dates given on the packing are 1995 and 1996. These two years basically mark the end of the civil war in former Yugoslavia (except for Kosovo later). So it seems that the factory mentioned above made these cartridges as an emergency measure. The company is still existing (produces electrical devices etc.) but does not mention any ammunition related production, not even in their historic review. I assume they do not produce any cartridges today.