Some 9x19 headstamps for ID


#1

I have two 9x19 headstamps which I am not able to identify correctly.

First is CgT - I have no idea what company was the manufacturer of this cartridge (case)
The second is CMC which could be Romanian Copsa Mica di Cugir, but the style of the symbols is distinguish from usual on 7,9x57 (third specimen on the picture), therefore I am not sure that my ID is correct.

Please, help me to make a correct ID of this headstamps


#2

Treshkin - you are correct that your 9mm with “CMC” headstamp is Romanian, regardless of the difference in headstamp-letter style from the 7.9 x 57 version.

“CgT” represents the Calibra Group of Technopol, the Technopol Joint Stock Company, Bratislava, Slovakia.


#3

Thank you!


#4

treshkin,
John is correct in his identification of the Code “CMC”. I think the ammunition is actually German. I have a full box of 9mmP headstamped “CMC 9L” and the box is a Geco box with a Romanian overlabel. The label is dated 1944 which is interesting because Geco (with the dnh headstamped) only produced a single lot of brass cases in 1944 as far as I can tell. I also have a similar Romanian box label on another box with Geco end labels. The label indicated steel case ammunition. I got the box sealed and opened it hoping to find steel case “CMC 9L” cartridges. All the rounds were steel case, but headstamped “dnh St+ 8 44”!!!
I suspect your CMC headstamped 9mmP was a contract load for Romania and probably was made by Geco sometime before 1944. It seems unlikely that Romania was making 9mmP and then subsequently was ordering ammunition with the same headstamp from Geco.

Cheers,

Lew


#5

I tend to agree with Lew. There is another headstamp - C M C 9L. They have a black primer seal. My round with the headstamp “C M C 9” has a green PA, as I recall. Not sure both are made in Germany, but could be.
The “C M C 9” headstamp also appears on 9mm Browning Short, and I once felt that perhaps they were made in Italy, since Beretta made the Model 1934 Pistol, with caliber marked on the slide in Romanian (9 mm Scurt), specifically for Romania.

Interesting stuff. I was only confirming the ID of the initials. Lew and I have talked about this one before. Sometimes, though, you sure can’t tell the players without a program in this ammunition business.


#6

Thanks you for this important additions


#7

Thought I’d post the boxes I mentioned above and also the headstamps discussed.

The dnh load is from the bottom box and the CMC 9L load is from the top box. I would never have expected the CMC 9L load to be German since it has a non-magnetic bullet, as does the other CMC headstamped load. The CMC 9L load weighs 191 gr which indicates a 124gr bullet. The CMC 9 load weighs 193gr.

John, I agree with you that the CMC 9 headstamp has an Italian look to it, and the letters are very different form the Geco made CMC 9L headstamp. Have you done a comparison of letters with known Italian 9mmP and 9mm Corto in your collection. There may be an opportunity to pin this one down a bit more.

As I mentioned above the sides and/or ends of the boxes clearly show they are Geco. I can post them if anyone is interested.

Cheers,

Lew


#8

Thanks! Great pictures and specimens!


#9

Lew,

I really have not. Later today, I will get out my specimens of CMC 9 - both the 9 mm Para and the .380 auto, and look long and hard at them. I wish I knew exactly when they were made, but I am going to assume right at the start of the war. I will look then at what I have in Italian 9 mm Para and 9 mm Corto, at PA color, bullet shape, letter shape, etc. Not sure I will be able to come to any conclusion, but we’ll give it a try.

J