Some Chaco War 7,65x54mm cases


#1

Just visit a friend that have a big collection and he show me some cases a friend pick up on one of the Chaco War combat fields.
Three of the cases are FYA (fusil y ametralladora), two from DM (1910 and 1911) and the other from FN (1929).
Are these ammo from the Argentine contract or there were from a different Bolivian contract?
There is also another Kynoch Argentine contract case. ¿??
K34
7,65

I could not identify the last one:
S
F N
34

Any information would help.
Thanks
Martin


#2

Some pistures of the cases:

Thanks
Martin


#3

Hi, Martin…

S F N 34 should represent S-ball (Light Ball), approx. 154 gr bullet, Fabrique Nationale, 1934…

Fede or other can add or detract if I am incorrect…

Randy


#4

Hola Martín,

The cases headstamped 19 FyA 10 DM and 19 FyA 11 DM are Argentine contracts and is speculated that these were supplied to Paraguayan forces. The K.34 7.65 cases are generic contracts that could been actually been supplied directly by Kynoch to Bolivia (these were also used by Argentina). The same goes for the F S N 34 ammunition (Randy, your identification is correct!).

There are many interesting 7.65 x 54 mm Mauser cartridges related to the Chaco War, including P * * (Hirtenberger, also found in 9 mm Para. used by Bolivia), MR 1935, P F S (Solothurn, various dates from the 1920’s), 19 Z 35 7.65S, * DWM * 19 K 33, no headstamp, etc.

Un saludo grande,

Fede


#5

Gracias Fede!
Un capo como siempre.
It is incredible how much you know.
Thanks
Martin


#6

Fede,

Is this round related to the thread? I’ve always been told that this is one of those ‘mystery’ headstamps that no one has been to correctly identify.

Thanks,
Paul


#7

Paul, I have never seen any label revealing the true manufacturer of any of these “MR” headstamps:

7.9 x 57:

MR 7,9: Woodin believes “it was likely made by Manurhin”.

MR 1933: Reported by Alessio Grimaldi to be from Egypt. Also found in Spain.

MR 1934: Found in FNP (Palencia, Spain) after the Civil War.

MR 1935: Some Spanish collectors report that the date is false and that it was made for the Republican Army. Others believe that the date is correct and made by Manurhin.

7.65 x 54:

MR 1935: Also reported by some to have a false date and made for the Republican Army. I don’t believe that this is correct because I’ve found loaded rounds and fired cases in Bolivia.

MR 36 (serif): I have not read about any speculation for this one.

There are many coincidences between the cartridges used during the Bolivian-Paraguayan Chaco War (1932-35) and the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939). Some 7.65 x 54 cartridges are attributed to Spain but were already in use during the Southamerican conflict.


#8

For Fede,

all these headstamps are actually from Manurhin in France.

Manurhin exported a lot of ammunition to many countries during the 1930’s. Identified customers are at least China (7.92), Yougoslavia (7.92) , Lithuania (7.92), Bresil (7x57), Mexico (7x57, 25x193R), Bolivia (7.65x54), Japan (25x163), Romania (13.2x99, 25x163) , Russia (25x193 rimless).

There are probably many more but there is no complete surviving archives to investigate.

On a Manurhin pre-WW2 display board, I observed myself a 7x57 marked “MR 32”, a 7.65x54 marked “MR 1935” and a 7.92 marked “3 MR 8 7,9”.

JFL


#9

JFL, thank you very much for the information. I think that most of us always had assumed that these were all made by Manurhin without actually seeing any document to prove it and this led to many discussions about the actual origin.


#10

Found a picture of the box. Cartridges inside were headstamped MR 1934.


#11

Fede: So then the 7.9 m/m cartridge pictured on p. 263 of v. 1 of Hackley et al. is a Manurhin cartridge? Jack