Some Finds From the Czech Meeting


#1

This past weekend I attended the Fall meeting of the Czech Cartridge Association. Most of the attendees were Czech and Slovak, but also two Germans and some Austrians. I think I have been attending this meeting for almost a decade and enjoy the company. Friday evening is a social time to get registered and renew memberships and talk cartridges, and perhaps exchange a few items. I wish I understood Czech/Slovak. If I did, I would know a lot more about cartridges. Still, the beer and the company are both great.

As usual, I left the meeting with some great items. Some of the more interesting were the following headstamps on 9mm:

  • THAI ARMS 9mm Made for that company

    • TK-V * .32 ZVI I understand that this case was made by ZVS and originally intended for a 32 caliber cartridge which was a necked down 9mm Luger, but most of the cases were loaded as 9mmP. I had previously picked up this cartridge, but saw one in a box and decided to pick up a second.
  • S&B 9mmLUGER @ Steel Case NUPE

  • S&B 9x19 NONTOX 12 Long tapered HP solid GM (no lead core) recently introduced for police. The HP is much smaller in diameter than the similar solid GM HPs I have seen in the US. The production round has a blue pr. I also obtained a prototype of this round with a larger diameter HP bullet, same headstamp but no pr color.

  • S&B 9x19 NONTOX 11 MEN style PTP bullet with tiny hole in bullet tip, green pa

  • S&B 9x19 PP 01/13 MEN style PTP bullet with tiny hole in bullet tip, green pr, nickeled case, contract for Italian Police

  • (+) 9mm FNB 13 Brass color bullet, Blue pr Made for FN Belgium (also one dated “11”)

  • MIC 9x19 C 13 GM bullet, Blue pr, Made for Saudi Arabia

  • RDJF 9MM LUGER Brass color bullet, Made for Dominican Republic

  • S&B BM 9x19 13 Brass color bullet, green pri, Made for Romanian Police

  • S&B 9x19 11 bullet is a steel ball, a Ballistic Test Load

Saw some other interesting things:

  • 9mm Makrov AP loads with black tips and green banc beneath-both CWS and Lacquered Steel cases and both Russian and Ukrainian headstamps as I recall

  • 7.62x54mm case necked up with a gold colored flechette

  • 7.62mm Nagant revolver rounds made for a Carbine in that caliber. I obtained a copy of an article on these cartridges which includes a photo of the gun. Unfortunately the article is in Czech.

  • Lacquered steel cases headstamped * KOPP * 9X18 MAK and the companion headstamp * S.A.A. * 9X18 MAK as well as the same style headstamps on both 7.62x39mm and 5.45x39mm cases. I was told that none of these was actually loaded. They were produced just as KOPP was going out of business and all were crushed as scrap except for a few that were scooped up before the firm folded. Sad that the liberated cases didn’t include 9mmP cases since they were obviously made http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=14174. Maybe one will turn up for me eventually.

Note that the description above is my best understanding of what I was told, or from the notes given to me with the cartridges. Any corrections are greatly appreciated.

Sorry for not providing images, but I am sitting in the airport hotel in Prague waiting to fly out tomorrow to Holland for the Dutch meeting.

A great meeting as always!

Cheers,
Lew


#2

Lew, nice finds, congratulations! The Saudi cartridge is a contract made for Military Industries Corp.


#3

Lew,
Thanks for documenting some great new rounds.
See you in Holland.
Gary


#4

hello
for LEW ,the S&B 9mmLUGER @ Steel Case NUPE is a copper washed or lacquered steel case ?


#5

Following the latest trends in Russia and Ukraine it could be polimer coated then.

Actually the only copper washed cases we know of came out of North Korea. All others designated as such are copper clad.


#6

Ammogun, the case looks to be plain steel with a graphite coating or something similar. No evidence of zinc or any other coating but a slight blackening of the case.

EOD, Are you talking about North Korean 9x19mm!!!

Cheers,
Lew


#7

Lew, I wish!
No it was just in general and without any caliber limitation.


#8

Guy’s, please don’t discuss the existence of a North Korean 9mm Makarov head stamp in the forum.

Please considerate the health of Mr. J. Moss. :-)


#9

Dutch - thank you for thinking of me. Actually, I went through my North Korean phase on the Makarov a month or so ago, after reading in a Russian Government publication that “USSR, German Democratic Republic, People’s Republic of China, and the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea had manufactured the Makarov Pistol.” That, coupled with seeing the propanganda films of KPA soldiers shooting steel targets painted up like American soldiers with a pistol looking much like a Makarov, I went temporarily insane.

I am now convinced that the “9 mm North Korean Makarov” is actually the 7.65 mm North Korean Type 70 Pistol, which bears some superficial physical appearance to the Makarov, but is not one nor even really a copy of it.

So now, instead of being temporarily insane, I can go back to being my old self - permanently as nutty as a fruit cake!

P.S. to keep this a cartridge entry, in a couple of pictures I have prints of, the “Great Leader” of the DPRK is sitting in a seat in some kind of vehicle, along with his military staff, and on a little side table next to the seat are one each 7.65 mm Browning and 7.62 x 25 mm Tokarev, the only two pistol cartridges that I am aware are being made in North Korea. In another picture, he appears to have them in hand. A budding young cartridge collector???