Some ID Questions


#1

Soviet 5.45x39:
Yellow tip?
Black tip?
7.62x39:
Iraqi headstamp, yellow tip, red primer.
Loading? Legit?
7.92x57:
Two Romanian rounds, both CNCS with green primer seals.
CMC 19 7.92D 40 and CMC / 19 / 7.92 / 40 / .
Loading? Any difference between the two headstamps?


#2

Jon,
Your 5.45 x 45mm rounds are both proof loads. My understanding is that the yellow tip indicates a heavy bullet type whilst the black tip indicates a heavy charge type. If I remember one is for testing proving the weapon whilst the other is for proving the barrel - although I don’t recall which is which.
Jim


#3

I have seen red and green Iraqi primers. The yellow tip… I can’t remember. I have a bunch of it and I’ll look through it when I get a chance to.

Chris.


#4
  • Jon, your both 7.92X57 rimless rounds were made in 1940 by Copsa-Mica Cugir plants from Transylvania [Romania]. Copsa-Mica and Cugir are 2 different towns located about 45 miles apart. Both rounds have the same load, there is no difference. The only difference is shown by the headstamp letter “D” which means that particular cartridge brass shell case was manufactured from wasted / scrap / discarded / recycled brass. The code letter “D” stands for the Romanian word of “deseu” [with a comma under the letter ‘s’ from the middle]. The same letter “D” can be seen on some WW2 Romanian headstamps for the 13.2X99 Hotchkiss Long rounds. I wrote about all this subject in my first addendum [see page 44, IAA Journal #434, Nov/Dec 2003] for my original article named “Romanian Headstamps Since the Beginning of World War Two”. Liviu 03/09/07

#5

I have Soviet yellow tipped 5,45x39 and 9x18 which were identified to me as barrel proof loads, but only the identification of the sellers (three different parties) for that. Hopefully one of our Russian colleagues will weigh in on this.

.


#6

May I say something not being a real Russian?

The almost all yellow projectile is the “barrel proof” designated “VD” (vysokoe davlenye - high pressure). Yellow is only applied when projectiles have the regular projectile shape. Those projectiles known to be longer (and heavier) are not painted usually since the shape is indication enough (only the Hungarians did with some 7.62x39 where they laquered a long projectile with a very translucent yellow paint).

The almost all black projectile is the “weapon proof” designated “UZ” (usilenyi zaryad - increased charge).

This marking procedure was applied by all Warsaw Pact countries.


#7

Thanks all.
Liviu, what loading does the green annulus designate?


#8
  • Jon, the green annulus you see on those Romanian made 7.92X57 rimless rounds dated 1940 means “heavy ball”. A black annulus shows “S ball” and a red annulus means “armor piercing”. Liviu 03/10/07