Some more pics from 44-40 WCF, austrian and chinese

Here a puic from an austrian box from G.Roth:

and here a photo from the chinese headstamp I got:
44-40 chinesisch

Have fun
Peter

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Emmmmm…I’m a Chinese,but I can’t recognize what the headstamp write.maybe “乙未”?

What means the left sign?
This is ammunition delivered in 1890 to 98 to China, I was told, as I got it.
I have some more in 45-70 caliber…
As soon I can pic them, i will publish the pics…

PP

“乙未”means 1895.Chinese has unique calendar…I can hardly explain it

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Thank you very much, that corresponds with that I was told, delivred between 1890 and 98. so 1895 fits perfect…
Thanks again for your help…
Have a good time
Peter
I am maybe next year in spring again in Guanghzou for the spring fair…

Welcome!wish you can have a goodtime there😉

Peter,

Can you provide a photo of the entire cartridge?

Thanks,

Brian

Hi, it is at moment about 2500km away :-))
Will do it earliest in end of January, when I am back there… Sorry

Peter

Peter,
The 45-70 with these year dates was claimed for years to be Winchester manufactured. A comparison of them with Chinese made ammunition makes it clear that they are Chinese made. No records have ever turned up indicating US manufacture. Six dates in 45-70, from 1879 to 1900, are documented by Ken Elks in his book on Chinese ammo.

Your 44-40 appears to be 1885 which is one of two dates Ken documents on 44-40, the other being 1903. Ken also shows all the symbols from the Chinese 60 year Calendar in his book.

I am convinced that these are Chinese made. I don’t believe that Ken, nor his co-author Bin Shih, was able to identify the actual manufacturer. I know that Bin and I could not identify the Chinese manufacturer in the 2001 IAA article we wrote in Journal #420. Bin was able to locate Chinese records that indicated at least four arsenals made 45-70 (Guang Dong, Nanking, Szechwan and Shanghi) but he could find no evidence indicating the use of this, or any other headstamp, by any of them.

Cheers,
Lew

Lew,

Could you recheck those dates you put? You show the 44-40 being made
in China in 1985??? That doesn’t sound right to me, and the cartridge in
question looks way older than that to me, although I don’t know a huge amount
about the .44-40.

John Moss

Corrected! I was agreeing with Sheng who nailed the date in an earlier post.

Lew

Here are some more 44-40 with chinese headstamps:
some are poorly readable…

44-40%20china%202

and one of a 45-70
45-70%20China%20bs

Here also the sideviews of this ammo:
44-40%20China%201-4%20und%2045-70

Have fun
Peter

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Hi Peter,
甲午means 1894,乙未means 1895,丙申means 1896

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Thank you very much for your help

Peter

Peter,
Do you know what headstamp came in the GR box?
(GR / * / * / * or * GR * WINCHESTER?) Thanks for the picture.
Dan