Some more pics from 44-40 WCF, austrian and chinese


#1

Here a puic from an austrian box from G.Roth:

and here a photo from the chinese headstamp I got:
44-40 chinesisch

Have fun
Peter


#2

Emmmmm…I’m a Chinese,but I can’t recognize what the headstamp write.maybe “乙未”?


#3

What means the left sign?
This is ammunition delivered in 1890 to 98 to China, I was told, as I got it.
I have some more in 45-70 caliber…
As soon I can pic them, i will publish the pics…

PP


#4

“乙未”means 1895.Chinese has unique calendar…I can hardly explain it


#5

Thank you very much, that corresponds with that I was told, delivred between 1890 and 98. so 1895 fits perfect…
Thanks again for your help…
Have a good time
Peter
I am maybe next year in spring again in Guanghzou for the spring fair…


#6

Welcome!wish you can have a goodtime there😉


#7

Peter,

Can you provide a photo of the entire cartridge?

Thanks,

Brian


#8

Hi, it is at moment about 2500km away :-))
Will do it earliest in end of January, when I am back there… Sorry

Peter


#9

Peter,
The 45-70 with these year dates was claimed for years to be Winchester manufactured. A comparison of them with Chinese made ammunition makes it clear that they are Chinese made. No records have ever turned up indicating US manufacture. Six dates in 45-70, from 1879 to 1900, are documented by Ken Elks in his book on Chinese ammo.

Your 44-40 appears to be 1885 which is one of two dates Ken documents on 44-40, the other being 1903. Ken also shows all the symbols from the Chinese 60 year Calendar in his book.

I am convinced that these are Chinese made. I don’t believe that Ken, nor his co-author Bin Shih, was able to identify the actual manufacturer. I know that Bin and I could not identify the Chinese manufacturer in the 2001 IAA article we wrote in Journal #420. Bin was able to locate Chinese records that indicated at least four arsenals made 45-70 (Guang Dong, Nanking, Szechwan and Shanghi) but he could find no evidence indicating the use of this, or any other headstamp, by any of them.

Cheers,
Lew


#10

Lew,

Could you recheck those dates you put? You show the 44-40 being made
in China in 1985??? That doesn’t sound right to me, and the cartridge in
question looks way older than that to me, although I don’t know a huge amount
about the .44-40.

John Moss


#11

Corrected! I was agreeing with Sheng who nailed the date in an earlier post.

Lew


#12

Here are some more 44-40 with chinese headstamps:
some are poorly readable…

44-40%20china%202

and one of a 45-70

Here also the sideviews of this ammo:

Have fun
Peter


#13

Hi Peter,
甲午means 1894,乙未means 1895,丙申means 1896


#14

Thank you very much for your help

Peter


#15

Peter,
Do you know what headstamp came in the GR box?
(GR / * / * / * or * GR * WINCHESTER?) Thanks for the picture.
Dan