Some newcomers in the collection

Took some "archive "photos and thought I could share them here too. Got these as part of a trade.


US 7,62x33 (.30 Carbine), M18 proof load.
7%2C62x39%2005%2081%20l%C3%B8s
East German 7,62x39 blank round, Spreewerke, Lübben. [05 81]
7%2C62x39%20finsk%20l%C3%B8s
Finnish 7,62x39 blank round. I’ve only the yellow semitranslucent plastic blank from before. In a catalog I’ve inherited there’s a MASSIVE amount of Finnish experimental plastic blanks which I’ve set a goal to get as many of as possible. [no headstamp]

Finnish 7,62x39, subsonic ball. [LAPUA 7,62x39]
12%2C7x99%20RA%2057%20AP
Norwegian 12,7x99 (.50 BMG) armor piercing. Picked this up as pure AP 12,7 aren’t too common to find here. Slightly magnetic bullet. [RA 57]
HK%2019x33%20sigpistpatr
German 19x36 mm signal cartridge for the Heckler & Koch Notsignalgerät (emergency signal device). [No headstamp]

Hope someone finds them interesting.
Happy Easter!
Ole

[Edit: changed the .30 Carbine round. Thought it was Norwegian at first. Thanks to Fede for pointing out it’s an American M18 proof ctrg]

1 Like

Ole, interesting cartridges, thanks for sharing. Please note that the first one is a Remington made M18 proof load.

Regards,

Fede

Ole, you say whitened case on the first one. Is it a nickel case, or some type of whitened brass?
Thanks much!
Dan

I believe it is tinned.

Fede:
What is there you don’t know :-) Thanks,Fede. Corrected. I got thrown off by the likeness of the Norwegian cases…
I have the 9x19 and 7,92 myself, I’ll try getting a friend who has the 7,62 variant to take a picture of his.
Dan:
Here is a link to a Norwegian website where you can see the 9x19 variant:
http://kvf.no/vaapen.php?type=Ammo&weaponid=AMM0081
Not quite sure how to explain the “whitening”. JonnyC might be spot on with the tinning, the only term I’ve heard for the process is “boiled white”, whatever chemicals that might entail.

Ole

Thanks Jon, They look like nickel from the side, but the difference sticks out on the ones with the nickel primers. (FA & WRA.)
Dan
Thanks Ole.

Regarding the Norwegian ones, according to the website they’re “white boiled” brass. Checked mine and it seems to be.
Ole

Some new ones that arrived yesterday:
30x170, 20x139 factory dummy from Raufoss (used to test actions NM45 AA guns), 7,62x45 “bxn ⋆ 12 51”, and 5,45x18 PSM (headstamp “. .”).

30%20bs
30HSS 831A 1 - LUM - 72 - S
20%20bs
20MM x 139 LOT 8-RA-73

Can anyone tell me about the 30x170 - who is the mfg. and what proj. would it likely have?

Ole

Ole the 20x139 from Raufoss is a seldom guest! Nice find.

The 30x170 is French made by Luchaire of Messei.

2 Likes

Thanks for the info, Alex!
The 20x139 is really neat, kind of a shame about the condition, but it’s also part of its history.
Color markings would indicate NM75 MP-T (DM91?) as far as I can tell, this one is of course entirely empty.

Ole

To what I know we never had the MP variant. Where you got the DM91 designation from?

Alex - Nammo’s ammunition handbook (at least my printed 2015 and 2016 editions (page 84/2016)) claim that the NM75 MP-T is designated DM91 by BAAINBw for German service. The 2018 edition might show the same.

Searching now I also found this .pdf which shows the exact same marking (pink proj with yellow band around bottom of nose cap):
http://www.eeoda.de/2014/1412_FB1_20x139.pdf

Ole

Ole, interesting!
Now it would be good to know if it was only type classified or also adopted for service.

Indeed! What use does 20x139 see in the BW? I know of the Rh202 in the Marder, Luchs, and Wiesel.

In Norway it was used in NM135 IFVs (NM113 w Rh202 turret) and NM45 SPAA.
Former is replaced by CV9030Ns and latter by a grand total of two Humvees with NASAMS launchers.

Ole

Germany should use them only in Marders and Wiesels (unless I forgot something). The Luchs’ are long gone like some other systems.

The thing is that not long ago I read that the German military is intending to adopt some modern style loads and I wonder what they might be.
Knowing our mil. procurement entity we will end up with something made in Pakistan or so.

Not too unlike our webbing/plate carriers made as cheap as possible in Poland or our MG3s in Turkey like we previously discussed. Or more recently made famous, our frigates built in Spain, out of 5 are 2 in readiness, one is a parts ship, one is in rebuilding and one just barely floating again after spending a 3 month siesta on the seafloor outside Bergen.

Ole

Yes, I love European tenders now where domestic industry has to compete against lower prices (abroad) disregarding quality and then fixing it for a price which is higher then newly made stuff from a quality manufacturer!

You sure remember the German MG3 made in Pakistan!
Reworked several times and 1/3 still scrapped, paid more than for German made ones and time delay for reworking was as long as making new tooling in Germany would have taken. And sure these were not cheaper than German made ones.
Well done!

1 Like

+1 on the 30M18 proof round. Found a small stash of them, incuding a full box, in an estate. The box found a good place in a Dutch M1 collection.

Still have a couple of rounds somewhere.

30M1_test

Alex,

Bundeswehr has used the 20x139 also in the FK20 (Feldkanone) in the Army and also as a double barrel version in the Airforce.
As far as I know the FK20 version used a Drei-Wege-Gurtzuführer instead of the other just using a Zwei-Wege-Gurtzuführer, basically a system to supply linked ammo to the gun. So you were able to supply via 3 or 2 different ways. This makes sense if you want to use different types of ammo.

Cheers

Jo

Desperado, yes, but I referred only to systems currently in service. Including obsolete systems the list would become much longer then.
Though not that long ago the Feldkanone was reactivated for camp defense in Afghanistan. They desperately managed to find like 4 guns which escaped disposal (from Museums?) and dug up reserve-force grand daddies who were able to handle the system.
But I think today they should be out again as other systems were adopted like the RWS 35mm Manthis.