Some Romanian 7,9x57 cartridges


#1

Here some pictures of Romanian 7,9x57. Hope they will be interesting for IAA forum members.

First pictures with Blank cartridge. At the right - cases for blank cartridges, which wooden bullets, for a pitty rot.

Second picture show the Dummy cartridges.

The headstamps in the lower parts of the picture corresponds to the specimens on the pictures, of course with exeption sectioned ones.

For a pitty I don’t know the original Romanian designation for this types of cartridges. May be somebody could add them to this topic to make the picture complete



#2

All the “PA”(and CMC) headstamped Cases are Romanian Factory, the “Circle M” is Czech ( Bratislava) and of Course the FN is Belgian.
The cases shown in Section (PA &CMC and Circle M) had the Roth Patent Primer-Pocket Design ( Hole thru Anvil), as did all original Romanian cartridges.(6,5x53R)

Interesting the ZB26/30 type firing pin marks…Romania both bought the Czech LMG from ZB, and Built some of its own at Cugir (CMC).

From the examples, it looks like the Drill rounds (Dummies) were recycled from fired ball cases…a common practice.

Nice selection.

Were the Cartridges “Dug up” from a battlefield or a training camp?
( because of the highly polished examples?)

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#3

All cartridges was found near Odessa city in Ukraine at the Second line of Romanian trenches. All specimens are digged and some of them was cleaned. Now they has terrible polished colour, but soon light patina will cover their surface and they became more collectible appearance.

I place all headstamps on this pictures, because they represents all main suppliers of Romanian army in cal. 7,9x57 (beside Germany and czeh SB, of course):

PA factories in Bucharest and Bumbesti-Jiu
CMC factory in Cugir
Czech manufacturers
FN from Belgium.

The oval firing pin marks on the primers of drill rounds could be made also by Heavy MG ZB-53

I leave some cases of Blank rounds in my collection because they also very interesting as data source. For example the first case without bullet was made from live cartridge - it has a black varnish around primer, and its body and case neck was damaged while unloading the bullet.

The combat rounds presented in Odessa region are only two types - Cartuse cu glont S (Cartridge with German S-type bullet) and Cartuse cu glont sS (Cartridge with German sS-type bullet). I don’t place a pictures with this types, because they are common and not very interesting.


#4
  • @ treshkin: Those 7.92X57 rimless rounds having the segmented headstamp and the maker’s mark “PA” and “CMC” are of Romanian manufacture. “PA” was the “Pirotechnia Armatei” (in Romanian) located in Bucharest and after 1939 located in Gorj county at Bumbesti-Jiu (later after 1945 it became “U.M. Sadu” which used the factory code “22”). “CMC” was the large military complex “Copsa-Mica Cugir” from Transylvania (Romania) which after 1945 was known only as “Cugir” and used the factory code “21” and rarely the code “15” (I have in my collection a 12.7X108 fired steel case headstamped “15” over “81”). Liviu 03/01/11 P.S. “Cartuse cu glont” (in Romanian laguage) can be translated into English as “Cartridges with bullet / projectile”.

#5

Thank you, Liviu

Could you help me with Rumanian designation for:

  • Blank round,
  • Dummi round, and
  • Clip (cartridge charger)?

#6
  • @ treshkin: If you want to know the official way the Romanian Army called those rounds, I have no idea. If you need a translation, there it is: “Cartus de manevra” (blank cartridge); “Cartus de exercitiu” (dummy / training round); “Lama” (stripper clip). Liviu 03/02/11 P.S. I remember that the 7.62X54R round was officially caled in Romania “MD1908” (“MD” stands for “Model”). I’m 100% sure of this because even the recently imported 7.62X54R rounds from Romania (made in mid-1970s by the plant “22” / U.M. Sadu) are marked on the metal tin containers with “MD1908” (among other typical Romanian ammo markings).

#7

Thank you very much!

This is exactly what I need