Some shotgun shells bought at an auction

If anyone could help with an ID I would really appreciate it.

I will get some images up if so desired, I don’t have any right now. I picked up 2 boxes of shotgun shells at a consignment auction, some paper, some brass shells, some of undetermined construction but I will take a WAG at it. I think I have ID’d all the brass ones, but some of these paper ones have me stumped. I probably will have more questions, but these are the first on my question list.

#1 Paper construction, brass head, never loaded or fired. NO headstamp markings. no markings on it whatsoever. Length is 3 15/16" Body diameter is 1.5" brass head height is 9/16", head rim dia. is 1.67". It takes a standard 209 primer, there is no primer in it.
#2. Pretty straightforward, it is a 10 ga Winchester Nublack hull, Paper construction, brass head, primed, never loaded or fired, BUT it is 5" long! What was this for?
#3 Headstamp reads ELEY NOBEL and it has the number 4 at both 3 and 9 o’clock. BUT it is only 2" tall. Roll crimp, orange paper body, red overshot card.
#4 is a real puzzle for me. It is headstamped Made in Belgium. and what looks to be a “32” on the head plus two other marks that I cannon make out that may look like arrows pointed out from the center or the side view of a house. The head is brass, the body is what I think is aluminum, the end is roll crimped over a red overshot card with “SIX” on it. It is 1.802" tall, the hull body is 0.500" dia right above the head, 0.546" at the mouth, the head is .0325" tall and has a dia. of 0.560" with a rim dia of 0.633"

There are about a half dzn… unfired, unloaded pinfire hulls and a number of metallic rifle/pistol cartridges in the mix, but I will see what I can find before asking about the ones that I can’t ID.

Did they make an 8 gauge brass shotgun hull? There was also a brass hull in the box for a 25mm Manville, a few plastic loaded hulls for a Greener Police 12 ga and one loaded 12 ga hull tha tis headstamped Eley Kynoch 12 but the side of the hull says Perdy 7 made in London.


Esshup, can you post photos?

Yes, I just have to take photos of them. Which one, and what angle do you want?

Usually a side view and headstamps in a row will do. And if then questions will arise we will see how to keep on.


I can answer a few from your last paragraph.

Certainly 8 gauge cases were made in solid brass, they have been listed in the Kynoch catalogs since 1882. - Eley and others made these also.

The plastic police gun cartridges are modern made , you may see the small letters V.F. on the head for Val Forgett an American gun dealer. who imported a batch of the old police guns.

Purdey of London did not make their own shotshells they were made for them by Eley-Kynoch, hence the headstamp, Purdey were only the retailer.


Here are the pictures of a few of the paper cases from my first post. The hull all the way to the left (red) is a 12 ga Win AA hull that is just there for size comparison… If anybody has any questions, ask away!

My thoughts on these shotshells.
10ga Nublack looks like a cut down Spotter cartridge for the US Practice mortar AN 3 etc.
These are usually 150mm long case so cut-down? Signal No4?
The 4ga looks like a cut-down case loaded as a blank? Does it feel like it has a shot load?
Blanks do not need a long case.
The I.5" case looks like a flare cartridge case before it was ever loaded. Quite common.

The 10 ga Nublack case has never been fired. There were 2 or 3 of those in the lot that I purchased, all are identical, with primers in the hulls. The 4 ga case is roll crimped, overshot card and yes, it feels like there is shot in the case. Again, it looks like it is factory original, never fired. Same with the 1.5" case - never loaded or fired.

the long 10ga Nublack is a mortar spotter I can’t tell if cut down or not.

The large example (on the right) looks to be an unloaded 37mm flare shell for a flare gun / devise by Harrington & Richardson which was fixed into the air fame body,
Should have a Winchester New #4 primer

The 4 bore Eley is a blank

Your layout of the photos doesn’t seem to mach you numbered description,


Thank you. Do you have any idea how long the mortar spotter should be? It is unloaded/unfired.

No the layout is backasswards from the description.

Any ideas on the small brass head/aluminum body hull?

The aluminium case is one of a series noted from .410 to 12 ga. Often found with SSG load etc.
Headstamp is usually Made in Belgium with calibre and two stars.
You have a 32ga (or 14mm) .
The Nublack is usually 6"long (152mm?)
This cartridge has been in a previous post. Here is my photo.

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ron3350, thank you very much!!

Typical Belgian FN made metal shotshell, also made in other gauges.
A few variations & also a box somewhere but this was easier

Are these the “cuirase” from F.N


I don’t understand,
Alludes to Armour?
dictionary has no entry for this.

He means this:

No he means these.
And these are the ones with typical loads like SSG AAA and other big shot.

The ones on the right in Pete’s picture are the ones in this box.

Ron 3350/
The belgian shells have not aluminium tube but zinc tube


My mistake as I was not sure. I notice that a white corrosion sometimes starts on the case.
Both aluminium oxide and zinc oxide are white (I think). Thanks.

Indeed Polman I mean these although never got hold of a specimen.My questio is did they come out before 1940 or in the 1950 s ?

Thanks and best wishes