Some unknown shotshells


#1

Here are some pictures you can find on the carton tube of shotshells.
I would like to know who are the customers.
I already asked to some of you without success.
Perhaps one of you has one of them in his collection
Known%20%26%20Tested%201Known%20%26%20Tested%202Special%20countygeraniumHiosThe%20county%20Special


Special%20BallistiteSpecial%20SmokelessSpecial%20LoadingThe%20KlinkerThe%20reliableThe%20BallistiteThe%20Sixteenthe%20purple%20champion%20%20AllThe%20Reliable%20bis
Thanks
JP


#2

Nobody ??
These shotshells must be very scarce.
Nothing René ?

jp


#3

Not enough information to be able to answer so that it is irrefutable, many firms produced a “special smokeless” cartridge, with print as near as to the drawing you show (no scale shown!). There is more chance with the Hios as only 1 firm that I am aware of produced a cartridge with that name, and the Klinker again only 1 firm (but the spelling I have listed is very slightly different to that) of course that could be a typo!!! This of course is based on the assumption they were for GB customers. However as my examples of these cartridges are not an exact match for your drawings there is no proof, in fact were they ever made?


#4

The Geranium cartridge is shown in Errol Tucker’s book “Shot shells of Australia” and my friend has a box label. It is not known if it has an Australian connection or not.
I have misplaced the book so cannot show the diagram.
Errol’s book is available from ACCA. He did three editions. Cannot help further. Ron.


#5

Except the “Special Smokeless” which could be used by many firms the other pictures are very distinctive.
I don’t know if they are for GB customers. it could be for Australia or even South America.
About the Hios and The Klinker it must be excatly the same as on the pictures.
Yes these ctges were made, pictures are coming from the marks made by SFM
JP


#6

Thank you very much !
JP


#7

hello Mike
as a proof these ctges exist here are two examples people sent me :
geranium%20bis

The%20Sixteen


#8

JP, the “Sixteen” cartridge that you show a photo of, was handloaded by C.S. ROSSON & Co, Gunmakers. Norwich, Norfolk, England.


#9

Hi JP,

Yes, I have the Sixteen you have posted and a Hios and a Special Ballistite but if you look at the drawing you show it is as I said slightly different as are the other two I mention, so I did not post them, also the “Sixteen” I have posted you can see was produced by Eley-Kynoch. What head stamp is on that Sixteen you posted because if it is from the Rosson range of cartridge as also suggested by Tanegashimatomurata I very much doubt it is what you are looking for, as it goes with the head stamp I posted! If not I would love to see the head stamp too as I havent seen one like that.
Eley-Kynoch%2016%20ICI%2016%20Rosson%20Sixteen%20Side%20View%201
Eley-Kynoch%2016%20ICI%2016%20Rosson%20Sixteen%20Head%20Stamp

OR if you want a faded version;

Eley-Kynoch%2016%20ICI%2016%20Rosson%20The%20Sixteen%20Side%20View%201
Eley-Kynoch%2016%20ICI%2016%20Rosson%20The%20Sixteen%20Head%20Stamp

Now I have included that one you can see the wording “Hand Loaded By” underneath which is not on your drawing.

The Geranium;
Now the Geranium does look to be correct to the drawing, so that is a winner. And a super cartridge to see, well done.

However finding one does not prove they were all made but it does offer some hope, and I really hope they are and all turn up. I have spoken to the two people I know with the best collections of West Country cartridges and neither have ever seen that (probably) Trewin’s version of The Reliable but I will keep asking and I hope I get lucky.

Mike.


#10

Thank you Curtiss

Hello Mike,
Th Eley -Kynoch ICI is from after 1930, and the ctge I am looking for info is from before 1914 and made by SFM.
I know that the design for the Sixteen is not excatly the same but it give me a good direction where to search.
I don’t know if all of the shells with this info are from Rosson but I will search that in priority.

I have still not read the end of the year stock listings SFM edited each year with the customers and the product names and it will help me to do the search quicker.

Have you pictures of the Hios and Special Ballistite ?
Thanks
JP


#11

JP,

There are three cartridge cases with “Sixteen” printed on that I am aware of (of which I have two Rosson’s and have seen another Sixteen but cant remember who’s) and none of them match your requirement in your sketch/es. I would not pin your hope on the Rosson cartridge as that was not introduced until much after your date requirement. Hence part of the reason I did not post it as I said previously. I believe it to have been introduced in the late 1930’s. In later years Hellis Rosson also produced a Sixteen cartridge but that would have been in the mid to late 1950’s and the print style is wrong.
The other two were New Explosives and Venables. I would try Venables as a lead as they were known to purchase from SFM, whereas NE only had Eley cases (certainly the vast majority where anyway and I have no examples of NE by other case manufactures).

The Hios and Ballistite do not meet your requirements for date and print style.


#12

Photo of a Geranium shotshell box top label.
The sides are missing. Does not say who made it.
Different print to the shotshell but boxes usually are different.


#13

thank you very much
jp


#14

Also found out that Geranium was the used trade mark/cartridge brand of G. Palmer, Gunmaker, Sittingbourne Kent and I have seen it on the side of a 100 x 12 Bore box of cartridges. Unfortunately I only have the Champion cartridge by him, so no picture!


#15

Remington-UMC, England. also produced a Geranium cartridge, but that is obviously not the one being asked about.
Headstamp was REMINGTON U.M.C. No.12 REMILION


#16

Yes and the word Geranium runs along the case at an angle of about 15 degrees to the centre line axis.


#17

I sure would like to see a photo of this REMILION one. The case printing, not the headstamp.


#18

here it is



jp


#19

That’s it JP, that is the one I have seen. I know I had a picture but could not find it when I replied.


#20

Nice JP, many thanks

last time I say Val he said to say HI !