Soviet 6.35 mm "Brauning" Box


#1

I could be wrong, but as far as I can tell no picture of a similar box was ever published in known literature.

БРАУНИНГ = BRAUNING

Drawing from Menschikov 1946 book:
I believe this probably is the original source of the so-called “6.35 mm Tula-Korovin” or “6.35 mm TK” round.

Note muzzle velocity 228 m/s:


#2

Fede in fact it was, just in Russia.

There is also two different 7.65 Br. boxes. One like shown here in the image below and one in the same design of the 6.35mm box as shown by you.


#3

Great pictures!!! Thanks.


#4

Alex:

  1. What are the headstamps on the 6.35 and 7.65 rounds?
  2. Please tell me those are yours and you have duplicates!

#5

Jon - they are not headstamped. The primer is brass cup. No primer seal. I have both rounds, although interted with a small hole in the case, in my own collection. At the time, only Tula was manufacturing these two calibers in the USSR, so it follows the pattern of not having a headstamp if only one factory was making it. The .32s were almost certainly the ones used in the first Makarov prototypes made for the 1947 tests.

There is supposed to be a later .32, at least, with a Tula Headstamp of “T” and a date, but I have never seen anything but anecdotal evidence of it - no picture.


#6

Jon and John, there is also a supposedly post war 7.65 Br. with a reddish laquered primer like those early brass cased 9x18 Mak made by “270” (Lugansk). So in Russia these 7.65 Br. are suspected to be of Lugansk manufacture.

The image is from a Russian gun journal. I only have the 7.65 box in the style as Fede’s box in 6.35 is.


#7

Could be, EOD. I note that the box is not marked from Tula, as IS the 6.35 mm Box. Both
of my cartridges came out of Ukraine. Still, the manufacturing characteritics of the 6.35
and the 7.65 cartridge look very much the same. That is not necessarily an indication of
being of the same manufacture, I readily admit.

Regarding similar 7.65 rounds with a red primer seal, which is really all that the early Mak cartridges have, I wonder if someone isn’t mixing the Japanese .32 and 6.35 mm cartridges
up with the Russian ones?


#8

John, no mix up with Japanese. Just the post war ones have pale red primers like the early “270” made 9x18 Mak. in brass cases.

Please note that the box is saying “PTV”. This is not Tula but the “Cartridge and Fuze Union” (means a union of factories). A short lived invention of the 1930’s. Sometimes this manufacturer sign is followed by a number indicating then the real factory (not the ones we know today). This all happened in the advent of the introduction of factory codes as we know them today.
Of course it is very likely that these were made by Tula but as said the logo is not related to Tula itself.


#9

Did russia also make 9mm rounds? Somewhere I have a 1942 dated russian box with 16 rounds in it and the label says 9mm. Box is still closed so I have no idea whats inside.


#10

Interesting. Even if made by Lugansk, the lack of headstamp squares with the practice of the time, I think,
of no headstamp if a single supplier.


#11

Clieuwens - you should open it. I have never heard of any Russian production of the 9mm Parabellum cartridge
until the recent years. Certainly not in WWII. Being a 16-round box, it may just be overlabeled German ammunition. If it is Russian, it will change everything we know. That’s why it is important to look inside these boxes. What good is it if you don’t know the contents - half the knowledge is lost.


#12

Maybe someone can translate the label first.

bigger picture:
http://sportschutters.kicks-ass.net/displayimage.php?pid=2901&fullsize=1


#13

Couldn’t resist. opend the side of the box. This is what is inside. Am I correct assuming it is Bulgarian?


#14

Clieuwens, your’s here are Bulgarian.


#15

[quote=“JohnMoss”]Clieuwens - you should open it. I have never heard of any Russian production of the 9mm Parabellum cartridge
until the recent years. Certainly not in WWII. Being a 16-round box, it may just be overlabeled German ammunition. If it is Russian, it will change everything we know. That’s why it is important to look inside these boxes. What good is it if you don’t know the contents - half the knowledge is lost.[/quote]

John, some few sources (from manufactuers) claim that there were 9x19 made in the USSR in the 1930’s and 1940’s. After 1945 the USSR definately had German 9x19 cartridges in stock large quantities. Hard to say what for exactly, just as reserve or for supporting other countries.

For sure we can say that after 1945 there were German 7.65mm PP/PPK issued to armed organs of the USSR. Not to forget that in about 1938 the Soviet NKVD received PP pistols and German ammunition (later used in Katyn).


#16

EOD - This is why it is so important to open any box believed to be Russian 9mm
from before the current times now, to verify in this case of a presumed Russian box
that the contents are, indeed, Russian, or to see if they are that of some other
country repacked.


#17

I see that the box has been opened, and pictured. It is definitely original Bulgarian packaging, and not Russian, and the ammunition is the standard Bulgarian headstamp of the era.

This is why it is so important to verify these things. Anecdotal evidence is never REALLY evidence.


#18

John, I agree. But in this case here an image of the box would have been sufficient since there is no doubt about the ID of these.


#19

I would open every Bugarian Package that I could get my little hands on. Anomolies have been found in packages of otherwise normal cartridges. Several rounds with all red bullets were found in normal packages, and I believe the few known specimens of the “19 48” (no other entries) were found among normal ball rounds. I found, in a box of commercial Tulammo 9 x 18 mm, one round with the headstamp “539 nno 10.” Smaller headstamp letters than previous Police headstamp years, and a different case finish than usual.

Sorry folks, but you never, never know what is hiding in that box sitting unopened on your shelf, especially in foreign ammunition.


#20

Ok, that are good reasons in deed.