Soviet 7.62x54r 7N1 bullet type?


#1

Can anyone tell me about the large “PS” after the caliber on this tin of Soviet sniper ammo? Typically that is the bullet type on Soviet ammo tins, but I can’t find any mention of a PS bullet in “Russian 7,62mm Rifle Cartridge” by R. N. Chumak, or any other sources (very limited). In the book it refers to an “SN” bullet for 7N1 cartridges. Thanks in advance.


#2

7.62x54r, the original designation was “SNPS” (“SN” was then the abbreviation for “snaiperskie”) and later got changed to “PS” with the additional full wording “snaiperskie” as on your image. The “PS” itself is the Russian designation for SAA projectiles with a steel core like it is also used with the “LPS” and “PS” in 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. (a standard designation)
If being precise and following the Russian practice the 7N1 should have been designated as SNLPS since the projectile weight is the same as the with the LPS and later it should be “LPS snaiperskie”. Actually when the 7N1 got developed it was tried first to use a precise manufactured “LPS” projectile but it was lacking the desired precision (Russian designers were very impressed by Finnish 7.62x54R cartridges at that time)
Russian cartridge researchers are saying that the designation got changed to the full wording “snaiperskie” because many soldiers were not able to tell these cartridges apart from “LPS”. (since special ammo always has colored stripes on the cans and crates). Probably a process of making it “soldier safe” after this ammo probably too often ended up as “precise MG ammunition”.

Interesting to note that the “new” sniper cartridge 7N14 is now again designated as “SNB” where the “SN” got revived and the “B” stands for it’s AP-capacity. Unfortunately I have seen no tin or crate for it by now.


#3

EOD has given you the chapter and verse on this stuff, so I’ll just translate the basic markings for you;

the top row reads “7.62 PS GZh” (the character that looks like a small r is a Cyrillic g, while the character that looks like an x with a vertical stroke through it is the Cyrillic character for zh, a character that English doesn’t have a single character for); this translates to “7.62mm Pulya Stalina GZh”, or "7.62mm steel-cored bullet in a copper-washed steel case"
the next row is the Russian word for “sniper” (“snajperskie”), showing this ammo was meant to be issued for use with the Dragunov SVD.
the following row shows lot numbers and propellant data
and the last row says simply “440 shtuk”, or “440 pieces” (rounds).


#4

Thanks, I was aware of that.

EOD, thanks for the great information. One term I’m not familiar with in this context is “SAA” (I’m new to cartridge collecting, just not new to 7.62x54r ammo). So would it be correct to refer to this as a “PS” bullet rather than an “SN” bullet as Chumak lists it? I’m referring to the bullet only, not the cartridge. I understood the SNB when I saw it in the book and now I wonder if it wasn’t a matter of “reverse nomenclature” to the early “SN” bullet rather than PS as was actually used. Would PS stand for “bullet, steel”?

While I’m asking, is it also correct that the L in LPS stands for light and the D for heavy ball stands for heavy? When I translate light and heavy with babelfish I don’t come up with words starting with those letters (in Cyrillic of course).

Thanks again for all your help.


#5

7.62x54r, I forgot; WELCOME HERE!
SAA stands for “small arms ammunition”.
In general I would agree with Chumak on the SN since the main character of the projectile/cartridge is the sniper use and the projectile has a special design for this reason. I just think that the whole designation “SNPS” is the best (and official as far as I know, I have to check again). On place two I would stick with the designation as given on the current tins/crates “PS saniperskie”

The description of “PS” in Russian/Soviet manuals is “pulya s stalnom serdechnikom” what means “projectile with steel core”.

For the “L” projectile I can not say why the translator is messig up since the Russian word is “legkaya” beginning with “L”.
The “D” is more obvious since in Russian the “D” stands for “dalnoboinaya” what means “long range” (being for machine guns in indirect fire role, these MGs had a special sight setting for “D”). Though some manuals describe the “D” as the heavy projectile what is right as a matter of fact but incorrect in terms of their own abbreviation.


#6

Why then did the Soviets not mark the sniper cartridges with a unique color code so that all soldiers would know what it was and to not shoot it in machineguns? Was there a concern that if a sniper was captured with “special” ammo that they would be treated differently?

Also, since the “D” ball was intended for machinguns, why was it also packed in clips for the Mosin-Nagant rifles? Wartime expediency?

AKMS


#7

Thanks again!

SAA, Duh! All I could think of was single action army, which I don’t even collect.

The online translator I’m using renders pulya as bullet, so I guess it’s really semantics.

As for the points AKMS brings up. Could there have been a concern that the paint tip could defeat the high tolerances of the ammo? Maybe the original intention was machine guns, but it was found to work well in rifles? Just guesses on my part.

I have a couple of things to wrap up and then I’ll post a link to the project I’ve been working on. Hopefully it will be considered worthwhile. I have already given credit to EOD with a link to CartridgeCollectors.org. Y’all are more than welcome to pick it apart and offer suggestions and corrections where warranted.


#8

7.62x54r, the 7N1 got developed as a special sniper cartridge. There are several Russian designs for other calibers which have the same interior projectile construction like the 9x39 SP-5 and the 12.7x108 7N34 “SPB”.
The idea was to reach a higher accuracy by having no core in the projectile section which is in contact with the rifling.

Though it is interesting to note that the 7.62x54R 7N14 “SNB” is also declared as usable with machine guns while the paper bundle is still saying “snaiperskie”.


#9

[quote=“AKMS”]Why then did the Soviets not mark the sniper cartridges with a unique color code so that all soldiers would know what it was and to not shoot it in machineguns? Was there a concern that if a sniper was captured with “special” ammo that they would be treated differently?

Also, since the “D” ball was intended for machinguns, why was it also packed in clips for the Mosin-Nagant rifles? Wartime expediency?

AKMS[/quote]

AKMS, I wish I’d knew the answers to all the questions.
I think a captured sniper was in trouble enough with his rifle only, I can’t imagine that the ammo would matter since most people would not recognize such details anyways. Except if he had some sort of hollow point/hunting or spotter cartridges in his pockets.


#10

What I meant was could they have been thinking that the paint on the bullet tip might cause minor instability in flight leading to inaccuracy. Why go to the trouble of building a precise bullet only to throw it out of whack with an uneven paint job. Certainly they could have taken as much care with the paint as everything else, but why bother when you can just leave it off. I realize that the likelihood of there being a noticeable difference in accuracy over a little paint is slight, but it was just a thought. FWIW, I’ve shot 7N1 out of Mosins and I couldn’t tell that it was any more accurate than standard ball from the '80s, which is pretty accurate for surplus.


#11

I just do not know.