Soviet factory No 10

Hello,
I am looking for information about the Soviet factory number 10. Everywhere I was looking It appears as an unknown producer in the period 1944-46.



There are two “10” Tokarev headstamp styles, the one you show, and an impressed version with stars at 3:00 and 9:00. To date, I have not seen an identification for the factory. Since there are only 1944 examples known, the source might have been a side workshop connected to an established factory, or a factory set up just before production was reduced as the outcome of the war became less in doubt.

http://patronen.su/forum/index.php?topic=756.msg5600#msg5600
“Until 1942, pistol cartridges were made only by factory number 38 (Tula cartridge factory) and the shells did not have bottom marks. In the war and postwar years, the production of cartridges was established at a number of plants: No. 3 (Volodarsky Plant), No. 10 (Dzerzhinsky Plant, Molotov), ​​No. 38 (Yuryuzan, after the evacuation of the Tula Cartridge Plant), No. 60 and No. 270 (Voroshilovgrad, now Lugansk), No. 304 (Kuntsevo), No. 539 (Tula), No. 541 (Chelyabinsk), No. 710 (Podolsk) and No. 711 (Klimovsk) . From 1956 to 1989, the production of pistol cartridges was carried out only by cartridge factory No. 38, until the cartridge production was stopped.”

http://patronen.su/forum/index.php?topic=919.0
“Originally Posted by Hooke
Not so long ago learned that the plant №10 Commissariat ammunition - it gets them. Dzerzhinsky (Molotov), ​​now Perm Engineering Plant named after Dzerzhinsky, during the years of the Second World War he released ammunition … draw conclusions yourself.”

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Interesting news, thanks. Can anyone explain the two different headstamp styles, and are any other dates known?

@bdgreen Thank you very much! Well done, I can’t operate in russian well without translating.

@jonnyc These marks are technological marks. Each symbol (star, double star, triangle, double triangle) had a method assigned. In big simplify “from which shape and thickness of the workpiece the case was made, from which grade of brass, by some simplified technology, etc. Shape of case in general” I asked about it few years ago on russian forum:

https://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/36/2129885-0.html
“Автор Трешкин -” Из наиболее вероятных вариантов мне видятся следующие:

  • метод выплавки - например немцы выделяли в маркировке гильзы полученные мартеновским методом
  • конструкция гильзы (геометрические характеристики, т.е. толщина стенок, величина и направление затравочных отверстий, толщина и форма донной перегородки, строение капсюльного гнезда и т.д.)
  • форма гильзовой заготовки - кружок, цилиндр, квадрат, шестигранник и т.д.
  • технология вытяжки гильзы (включая - количество операций вытяжки, температуру и зону отжига после каждой операции, количество операций межоперационной промывки гильзовых заготовок (это, конечно, просто до кучи, но все же…)), метод выполнения затравочных отверстий…)"

this is just my version, but there is no evidence :)

Now, I think that in both cases it is the same plant 710

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Interesting observation!
Now it would be great to find more reference as the factory was re-established in 1944 as #710 and later in 1948 transferred to #711.

Hooke - It most certainly appears that the headstamp fonts of cartridges with factory designators of 10 and 710 are identical. Certainly the bunters made at the same source.

On a list published by the IAA in 2006, and compiled by Dr. Philippe Regenstreif, the factory “10” was shown as unknown, but the factory “710” was shown as “Podolsk Ammunition Factory, during WWII only and until 1948.” Regarding Factory 711, as mentioned by EOD, Philippe’s list shows 711 as the code for “Klimovsk Stamping Plant (100 km SW of Moscow). Founded since WWII. Active today. … See also code #61.”

Those entries do not square with an identification of the factory 710 as "Dzerzhinsky Plant, Molotov), if Plant 10 and Plant 710 are the same entity. EOD mentions that the plant was “later in 1948 transferred to #711.” Was the “711” in that case the plant at Klimovsk, as Philippe so-identified it?

This is very important information to me, as in the case of Plant 7ll, this information would also concern the very first 1947 and 1949 production of the 9 x 18 mm Makarov cartridge for the prototypes in that caliber and the 1949-produced pistols for the field trials of that year.

Please clarify this, if possible based on known information. Thank you guys.

John Moss

John, #711 is KSPZ and while also being in Klimovsk #61 is TsNIITOChMASh.
And #710 was in Podolsk of which Klimovsk is a district of.

So all 3 factories are in one city and also have/had close ties.

And not to confuse everybody there are also other ammo factories (commercial) and a proof house on the same premises.

On what caliber does the 10 16 44 * appear?

It’s a 16 gauge shotshell.

EOD - thank you. So, the Dzerzhinsky Plant, Molotov, was in Podolsk, and Philippe was correct, but simply with an incomplete answer as to the name of the plant?

I wish I knew 10% of what you guys do. Thanks for the assistance, Alex, and you too, Hooke. I think I finally got it straight in my tired old brain, or what passes for a brain.

John

John, the #10 you mean here is “Machine Building Plant Named After F. E. Dzerzhinskiy” of Perm (1940-1957 named Molotov).
It was not in Podolsk if I got it right what you wrote above.