I’ve spent 2 hours so far trying to find the color codes for Spain on bullet tips. I have several 7.62x51’s with yellow tip, “7.62x51 SB 79” headstamp. What are they, tracer or spotter? One page say’s “chrome yellow is a spotter” is this right? Thanks
In my collection I have 297 rounds of 7.62 x51 Spanish. None with yellow lacquer in the projectile. I have no knowledge that have been manufactured in Spain 7.62 x51 with a yellow tip. It is probably the work of some amateur with a desire to “invent” …
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I just checked “The Military Cartridges Caliber 7,62x51mm NATO” by Brandt, Hamann, Katmann and Kiehn, as well as “Small Arms Ammunition Identification Codes” by Scranton and neither list a yellow-tipped 7.62x51 from Spain.
Scranton does show a 7.62x51mm NATO with a yellow tip and a Portuguese headstamp. He states that it is actually a Russian Type D ball projectile loaded into a Portuguese case. Is there any chance your round could be a reload?
I am convinced that this cartridge is not original.
Can’t get down to my office right now, but has anyone checked in “Molina-Orea”?
I have studied the Molina-Orea and the TRATADO DE CARTUCHERIA LANZA, none of the two books talk about a 7.62 x51 with a yellow tip.
Thanks all for the comments… Sure beats me. But I’ll keep them till I find out for sure. Bill Woodin is also checkin on them.
The painting of the tip seems really original, but I insist that is not listed in any book Spanish. I will make arrangements with two friends ex- workers factory Palencia to see if me out of doubt.
Davrib … I fully agree … it looks perfect as does the primer seal & primer, as vwell as the bullet crimp. But I had 7.62x51 w/a Russian HE 7.62 in it from a test that was done. So it is hard to tell. Hope you get some kind of answer.//
Do you have any of these repeated cartridge? Go to Switzerland to ECRA meeting?
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1SFG - I would guess it is one of the “starburst” spotter loads from the likes of Jim Haak - Northern Arizona Munitions. Like the stuff sold here: http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/20rds-308-starburst-incendiary-ammo He uses allot of surplus cases from S&B, Fiocchi, or other military stuff, (possibly Santa Barbara) etc to load his stuff into, and they all look fairly original after the reloads since he’s a pro at it. If you have several, then just shoot one at some rocky outcropping or some scrap iron and see if there’s a large flash of sparks. The original military loads with color tips usually never have that misty speckled look like spray paint near the edge of the tip paint. Anybody else have a N.A.M. .308 yellow-tip starburst to weigh on a grain scale for comparison to this one? Pepper?
The primer seal and crimp look original, but the bullet crimp does not.
The bullet tip painting does not look like Palencia either. Palencia applied the paint with a brush and this looks like have being sprayed on.
I am almost 100% sure this cartridge has not been made in Spain:
- No reference to a yellow-tipped round in any books or anywhere (1).
- The bullet crimp does not look like Toledo or Palencia work.
- Spanish cartridges from that period did not have any bullet crimp.
(1) Except for the tracer bullet in the experimental reduced recoil rounds of 1975.
ALL … I just sent an email to Ammo One with a picture of the round and ask if it was by chance one of their Star Burst rounds as DKconfiguration said. Thanks Schneider… beautiful pic’s…and the info sure helps narrow it down to something I should hold onto … even if a reload… it is some comfort to know there evidently are not to many of them around. Again thanks for the help to a new collector. I’’ post any answer I get fro the company/
Just received this by email…Copy of my email and the answer:
Trying to identify maker/loader of this round
Hi I am a cartridge collector and have received a couple of these rounds but cannot identify them. Is this one of your Star Burst rounds?
11:50 AM (1 hour ago)
Reply |Ammunition To Go - Sales to me
show details 12:48 PM (31 minutes ago)
I am sorry sir, but the only thing we could find out is that it is made by:
SB Arms Corporation of the Philippines
We goggled the information and this is who we believe it to be made by.
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The marking of the base is clearly Spanish, there is no doubt that ho! I insist on saying that it is a work of some amateur, after Schneider’s explanation and I have no doubt.
davrib… Agree … except I am not so sure about it being an amature. I’ve sent another email to a company that does this kind of speciality loading. Am waiting for answer. And I thought it would be easy to ID these! At least I think we know what they are NOT. LOL
The case is definitely Santa Barbara from Toledo, Spain, like the ammo pictured here:
and not the formerly known as “Squires & Bingham” “SB” headstamp from the Philippines that Ammotogo thought it was. I understand their error since Sellior & Bellot, Squires Bingham, and the Spanish armory at Toledo all used the letters S and B on headstamps.
Jim Haak will probably remember it’s one he did. Probably a bunch of surplus Spanish .308 cartridges that he had back in the 90’s or whenever which he would have dumped the bullets & powder from, kept the original primer in place, and just loaded new powder into the case along with his custom incendiary or tracer bullets.
What is certain is that NOT has been made in Spain, well, the case itself. Also could be that had this type of projectile mounted using Spanish cases. I have in my collection one of the first tracers 7.62 x51 assembled in Spain, which uses a projectile Belgian manufacturing. This cartridge is listed in LANZA code number 3065.
Perhaps the star of this post is that, an experiment using the cases at that time was at hand
From Jim at North Arizona Ammunition about 45min ago. I only have three so to sure I should pull one.
Without pulling the bullet, I could not be sure if it is of our manufacture. Others have used that tip code as well. Thanks Tom, Jim
Jim Haak Northern Arizona Munitions
I ask Mr. Haak if I pulled a bullet and sent pic could he ID. Here is his answer;
Yes, I could tell and perhaps tell you who built the bullet if we did not. If you can get a weight of the projectile in grains and check the jacket as to whether it is GMCS or GM that would also help. We have used nearly every known head stamp in 7.62 NATO at one time or another. Thanks, Jim
Jim HaakNorthern Arizona Munitions"