Speer "G2" Gold Dot new bullet


#1

Back in Sep / Oct several of the gun & carry forums picked up on the existence of a new Gold Dot from Speer called G2. In 9mm & .40S&W so far, and it looks like it’s a whole new bullet that is just sticking with the branding of “Gold Dot”. The jacket has a crimp going around it halfway up from the case mouth with a few vertical slits as well, and the hollow point is filled with a resin which Speer touts as something to achieve uniform expansion (similar to the Hornady Critical Defense?). I have seen two seemingly identical boxes of this new 9mm version with different index numbers of: 54226 & 54227. It seems that the 54227 is intended for government as an end-user, and has “GOV” printed on the end-flap of the box, whereas 54226 is perhaps civilian or law enforcement sales?

I have seen a couple of the 9mm headstamps so far, both are supposedly from the government style 54227 boxes and have dated headstamps of 13 and 14. I had never seen this headstamp before just today, and this load only came into being known about a few months ago, so I’m not sure why the 13 date is out there, or if there are much if any of them going into circulation. As I dug further into looking this up I came across a sale listing for some .40S&W of this same type, in G2 boxes with the new bullet style, and the headstamp has a 2012 date. My guess is that Speer came out with this in semi-secret to bounce of the FBI, etc. for Gov contracts in .40S&W in 2012, but then the FBI declared they would be returning to 9x19 this past year, and so now we have this 9mm version?

This totally baffles me as to how we here, and the internet at large (no Google hits on this prior to Sep 2014) could have missed the existence of these? This will all hopefully be expounded upon by Speer at SHOT show this month, but they certainly didn’t speak of it at the last couple shows, and it does not yet appear on the Speer / ATK websites under their otherwise up-to-date law enforcement listings.

Visually, to me this looks similar to the ideas in the Hornady “Critical Duty” load, with the crimp around the jacket for a mechanical locking of sorts for jacket / core bonding, and the presence of a flexible matrix in the hollow cavity to supposedly ensure uniform expansion. As to which came first exactly, who knows. They were apparently conceived of concurrently, but it is interesting how the industry trends with these features, and also how they both have “Duty” in the package branding or name - both angling for government / department sales with a word that is a trendy L.E. buzzword of late.

The .40S&W headstamp from 2012:


#2

I take it no one else has seen these yet? Are these all totally new (new to collectors) Speer headstamps on the 9mm and .40 - with the 12, 13, and 14 dates? I see one seller on Gunbroker has some bulk bagged cartridges in 9mm with an end flap from a box. He claims that whomever he got them from, whether Speer, or a L.E.O. distributor; that he was told he could not resell the box at this time, only the cartridges.


#3

Received a 50rd box of these (54226) today and took some photos. The only unexpected thing was the ring of tar / grease around the base of the bullet. You can see the residue of it inside the case that I pulled a bullet from - with powder sticking to it. There is a notch of some sort around the base of the bullet where the grease sits neatly into. It has the consistency of a light tar, and reminds me of the stuff that PMP used to put on pistol bullets which left a black residue in the case.

I gouged the silicone plug out of this one to see the hollow point. It is actually more shallow than a typical Gold Dot:


#4

Has anyone seen rounds with the “13” date. I suspect these were rounds released to LE and similar activities. Would be nice to find some.

Cheers,
Lew


#5

Lew - there might also be 12 dates, as in one of the original photos I posted there are .40S&W with 12 dates. I would presume they were doing 9mm back when they were originally doing those .40’s?


#6

Lew and Matt - are we talking about any Speer 9 mm headstamp with a 12 or 13 date, or just those with the G2 bullet in it? I just wondered, due to the mention of earlier .40 S&W by Matt. Were those with the G2 bullet? Has anyone ever seen a .40 with that bullet?


#7

John - if you look at the bottom photo up in my original post for this thread, there is a picture of some .40S&W G2 boxes, showing the new bullet type, and the 12-date headstamp. It is a little hard to read, but that is just an image I copied from somebody who was selling those on an Armslist classified listing. It was for several boxes of the 180gr type, and the sale is now closed:
http://www.armslist.com/posts/3696543/nova-ammo-for-sale—40-s-w-speer-gold-dot-g2-duty-180-gr–boxes-of-50
That is the only place I had seen the G2 in .40S&W, but I have seen it mentioned by law-enforcement users on other forums.


#8

John, I have only seen this headstamp on the G2 rounds I received yesterday. Are you saying that it occurs on other Speer 9mm Luger loadings??? If so, which ones??? I need to go looking for them.

Cheers,
Lew


#9

Lew,

Wasn’t saying that at all, really. Just keeping open, for my question, the possibility that there are other dated rounds of different loadings. since there is no apparent reason to believe that this headstamp style is “loading specific.”

I have a different loading in a case dated “07” but the headstamp is different,
“SPEER 9x19+P 07” which is found on both nickel and yellow-brass cases, it seems.


#10

I came across this headstamp today which might have originally been for this G2 line, but for .45acp. I have not encountered a .45acp G2, but this headstamp matches the style of others seen in 9mm & .40S&W. The cartridges with this brass that I have contain an obscure projectile loaded by a small manufacture that uses fired & new brass on different types of loads. The primer is colored dark gray, and I assume this is intended to indicate it for law enforcement or military use as I have seen this style on other loads of that sort before. I don’t know if they were NPE cases with the dark primer from Speer, or if the primer coloring was done by the new smaller manufacturer who ended up with them.


#11

If anyone’s interested, www.gtdist.com offers the G2 product for sale. The buzz I’ve heard among end-users and testers is that the product hasn’t done well compared to the standard GDHP, and most large contracts are still GDHP.

The Gold Dot and other typical JHPs can suffer from uneven expansion due to angle of impact, but the Critical Duty and some other products still have the same issue. Not an engineer, but I don’t see how relatively soft synthetic fillers or plugs can address it. Best I can tell, the tip of the spear for wide-range terminal performance is still the SCHP design, but it’s performance is generally not superior enough to warrant the additional cost.


#12

Hi DK and All,
I have a good friend that is now retired L.A. County Sheriff Dept. that does “Private Security” now, and he has seen these GD silicone filled round around for a few years now. He has Fired them in 9mm, 10, and . 45.acp. He says that they were sent to various departments and agencies for testing and approval. He is not an ammo collector but did think it odd that they had head stamps that did seem to reflect the year that he received the rounds. He was told that these “Duty Rounds” would have various markings to ID the agency and loadings of the particular rounds being issued as samples and or those that were purchased. I am having him try to get me more information on this from his side and perhaps even some samples.
As far as performance went, he and his partners ran a batteries of tests that are typical of L.E. and other Agencies and they found these "GD2’s " were a wash between the older design and the newer design as far as performance went.
Hope this adds another “bread crumb” to the path and I will let you know anything else I find out that I know to be factual.
Cheers All.
R


#13

I suspect that the matte primer is typical of the so-called “green” ammo. Note that the .45 case appears to have the small diameter boxer primer as would be typical for a green loading. At least one primer manufacturer (Fiochi) omits the nickel plating on their green primers and those do appear to have a brownish grey matte finish.


#14

Today I received a Speer bulk repack box of 200 rds of the “G2” in .45acp. Speer does these bulk repack boxes and sells them to law enforcement distributors to use as practice ammo, because they are apparently factory-seconds, or blemish rds. I have seen a box like this one in other calibers, usually being the standard original Gold Dot, or sometimes the RHT frangible.

These all have the dated 14 headstamp which is identical to the one I had encountered earlier in the thread on brass used by National Police Ammo of Miami, except these original Speer loads do not have the black primer. Boxes like this should presumably also exist in 9mm and .40S&W for the G2, and although I have seen what look like retail style 50rd boxes for these 3 calibers, I have not seen them listed anywhere for retail sale, and they seem to exist in a law-enforcement contract only sort of limbo.


#15

I noticed recently that Gt Distributors (mentioned by Mwinter above) has started listing the .40S&W G2, and I ordered a box. It came today and has 2016 dated headstamps, so production on these is still current to law enforcement / agency customers it seems. Gt Dist. is great for getting access to some otherwise L.E.O. Federal brand stuff I have found:


#16

I just heard from a normally reliable source that the FBI is withdrawing all of its generation 2 Gold Dot pistol ammo.
If anyone can verify this please advise.
I do believe the FBI drank the coolaid on poly tip JHP’s.
The Gold Dot is marketed as a bonded bullet but as we all know it is a copper plated lead HP.
In my experience the bonded Winchester and Federal JHPs and conventional Ranger and HST line are superior.


#17

Thanks for the update IDR. I have noticed that lately, the term bonded is applied either with regard to thermo-chemical bonding (the traditional sort), or also to mechanical bonding, such as the banded mechanilokt technology that Remington uses with their Black Belt loads, or the Flexlock technology of Hornady’s Critical Duty bullets. I think when Speer says bonded they might be referring to the pinched ring going around the projectile just above the case mouth which might be a mechanical lock of sorts for jacket to core locking, who knows. The term Bonded is certainly used more loosely these days, but still not nearly as loose as they throw around the term “Match grade”…


#18

Speer G2 9x19mm with (20)18 dated headstamp

9%20x%2019mm%20G2%2C%202018%3B%20d

2018 box

9%20x%2019mm%20G2%2C%202018%3B%20a

Brian


#19

Speer has done a good job of keeping this ammunition strictly L.E. / Government sales as I rarely see it anywhere anymore. Used to show up a bit more on Gunbroker, but not lately as much. It seems that this came about at the same time that Hornady was innovating the Critical Duty line (enhanced Critical Defense) and shares many characteristics - crimped bullet jacket midway for mechanical bonding, vertical slits, poly filled tip, nickel lated brass, etc… All with the goal of touting “Barrier-Blind“ performance, which was the marketting buzzword du-juor starting a few years ago.